DarkAztek

This has been building up in me slowly, like a tumorous facial growth: It's obviously there and everyone sees it coming, but you deny its existence anyway just for peace of mind. ...I'm famous for my comparisons.

Since my first encounter with trolls and "lolz" on the Internet, way before 4chan, way before MMORPGs, was back when everyone just called it BBCs. Needless to say, I've noticed a few patterns of "freedom of speech" and, regrettably, grown accustomed, to racism on the Internet. Let me clarify in an over generalization: Racism on the Internet is nothing new, it's almost expected. Seriously, if you even Google any slur or crude euphemism, you'll end up with something like 10 billion hits.

Here's where I stand: People who consistently use racist jokes on the Internet and will not say them in public are complete garbage. I view these people in the same way I view seeing dog shit on my lawn. It's not so much the fact that it is there so much as the audacity of it all.

I'm gunna break this down into little sections in order to better clarify my view. A little schematizing, shall we?

1.) What makes you say that?

I'm using a bit of inductive logic here. The sheer number of people that are on the Internet and make racy, "offensive" jokes are staggering. Even on this forum, describing things as "nigger this, nigger that" and building up pseudo-stories are simply using the term for cheap laughs. It's like a fart joke: Many people see it as an instant win button, a super easy way to be labeled funny... And I dare go so far to say that these people think they are being edgy.

I have come across many forums with lax rules on what you can and cannot say... And any single one that allows racial jokes commonly (so long as it is not a flame) are often filled with people that first start the trend... These instigators eventually win others over and the terms become commonplace.

The facts that
A) Many people had to be WON OVER to that type of joke and
B) The sheer number of forums and other social interactive places that partake in this fashion
tells me that these types of jokes are very unlikely to be said aloud. This might be labeled a leap in logic, but I ask you all to consider your own experiences in determining if this part is correct. Do you think that these other people or that you yourself would ever say the same jokes to strangers in the real world? I doubt it.

2.) What's wrong with joking this way?
This labels people as one of a few different possibilities... They could be cowards, hiding behind the anonymity that the Internet provides since they are reduced to nothing more than an IP address, they could be acting desires to compensate for their feelings in real life, feeling that these things are funny but they don't like confrontation, they could be doing a bit of a mob mentality, which is essentially like high school where popularity depends upon you sheeping to social pressures, or they could even just be totally apathetic / stupid, thinking that saying something must obviously have no consequences in life. Remember, people could even be a mix of all of these things.

Let me clarify why each of these possibilities suck:
A) Being a coward is never desirable. If you're saying these things just because you can remain hidden, then you are simply acting out a nihilistic impulse that is despicable. "Watching the world burn" is the extremity of this possibility... And do I really need to clarify why that is a special kind of douchebaggery?
B) If you are simply compensating, then you are acting out a Freudian self-defense mechanism for the ego. It's a narcissistic fascination that is used to build yourself up by lowering others. It is neither mentally healthy to this excess nor is it a quality that, if you knew another person had it, would most people find desirable. Overachieving in one area to compensate for failures does nothing for me except to make me wonder / predict what it is you are compensating for in the first place.
C) Mob mentality is, by far, the dumbest of the possibilities. These people are incapable of acting for themselves because they lack self confidence. Contrary to the wisdom of the bumper sticker, it is not enough to question authority. You have to speak with it too. If you don't think something, don't say it. Don't pretend, don't be non-genuine at any time in your life.
D) If you think that you can say anything you want to in life, you are sorely mistaken. This life lesson is normally established at some point in the real world for everyone. Sometimes people just have a bit of growing up to do.

3.) So, what, people just should not make jokes like that?
I'm not saying that much. Indeed, many off-color jokes are funny. I am not afraid to make them myself. What I AM saying is that if you cannot say it out loud, then don't post it online.

4.) Well, I can say it out loud so fuck you.
Can you? Really be honest with yourself. (This thread is not asking people to sound off in whether or not they agree with me nor is it to get people to necessarily stop... More on that part later.) Well why WOULD you make the joke out loud? Is it for similar reasons that I have already listed as undesirable? Still d-baggery. It's only okay with the intention and, usually, only okay in whether or not it is funny.

5.) What constitutes funny then?
Just saying "nigger" does not count as funny. Using slurs and such words just for shock value or as a one-button gag are not funny. Should I elaborate? OKAY!

I've had a lot of talks with people about what is and is not funny, the naughty goings-on of humor, and general good taste. I was told that when something is humorous and not situational, the reason it is amusing is because there are two ideas that collide with each other. Indeed, a lot of Freudian psychologists agree that these two distinct ideas that conflict and go against the audience's assumptions. It's either that or something that they can relate to.

Two prime examples are as follows: 1) A man is at a Greyhound station and the bus pulls up. Before the man can get on, it up and floats away. This is funny because vehicles do not normally defy physics. It's a bizarre juxtaposition. 2) A man is at a Greyhound station and the bus pulls up. Just as the man gets on, he realizes he forgot his ticket and he is thrown off of it. This is funny because we relate - we've all forgotten something before. Combine this memory with a little Schadenfreude that it is happening to someone else and you get humor. Ha ha ha, we all laugh and nod to each other to indicate our understanding.

It is true that everything can be funny. There is no such things as a taboo topic. Some like to say, "Ooooh you can't joke about that!" No, that's not true. You can joke about anything so long as what you say is done well. George Carlin had a great routine about how rape can be funny. I agree with him: Depending on what the exaggeration is, whatever the topic is can be downright hilarious.

If you make a saucy comment online, even one that could be offensive to some people, but it is funny? I'm down with that. I'm 100% for it. I believe it is a good thing for people to laugh at others and themselves when the time calls for it.

6.) So... What now?
What, indeed? I know that personally, I will not start flagging people or verbally bitch-slapping everyone I meet that does this stuff. I can always just read another thread or go to somewhere else online. I take most of what is said online with a grain of salt because, with trolls, there is no winning. I even expect some people to try and troll this thread and that's okay too... Because I feel like I articulated my point quite clearly and I believe I am right.



WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO THIS EPISTLE, HUH?

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Azumi

It's awesome. But racism is racism. Either in real life or in the internet, it still is racism. We are talking to real people with real lives on the internet, so racism here is still applicable, regardless of how virtual we seem to look like here.

You got my respect.

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Miburo

I really dislike cowards. People who say shit on the internet, yet wouldn't say the same thing offline, are scummy as all hell. Same with people who talk about beating people up and junk online, when the odds of them ever being able to back up their talk is nearly non-existent. Hate that crap.

However, racist jokes (or even insults, depending on the situation) are one of the few things I'd be willing to make an exception for. Because the repercussions of racist remarks offline can be rather ridiculous and unfair at times.

For example, lets say I'm out and for whatever reason some black guy starts harassing and insulting me. Since I'm a prideful manly idiot about that kind of shit, I'll insult him back. He becomes enraged and physically attacks me. I naturally beat him down. In this scenario I did nothing illegal since I acted in self-defense.

Now, take the same exact scenario. He insults me, I call him a lawn jockey or something stupid like that, he physically attacks me. I ruin his shit. Now I could potentially be charged with hate-crime related offenses because I'm a white guy who made racist remarks and then beat up a black guy. And there can be serious punishments for stuff like that. Depending on how the trial goes about, and the witnesses, there is a decent enough chance that the charges could stand.

Same exact scenario, but making a racist remark puts one at a significant more risk of legal repercussions. It really isn't fair. In both cases I would be insulting someone, after all. Pretty ridiculous.

I wouldn't call avoiding making remarks like that cowardly. It's more of just not being stupid, since the repercussions have the potential of being extremely severe. It's not that one is afraid of the person he is insulting (Like one would be if they would insult someone online, but wouldn't say the same things offline because they're afraid of being beat up by the person), but because of a higher authoritative power.

Don't get me wrong, I think seriously being an actual racist is retarded as fuck. But if you're doing it to piss people off or for humor, and don't actually believe people are actually inferior because of skin color or anything stupid like that, then I really couldn't care less.

Also, it's true that people who try to be funny and fail at it, as well as sheep who don't think for themselves, suck pretty hard. But they're not unique to just the topic of discussion either. They suck regardless of if they're making racist remarks or not.

zer0systm

I think the rules outlining Hate crimes in America are a bit harsh, we don't have anything that severe down here, as regards to my opinion on racism on the internet, I'm not really all for it but I'm not against it.

To me they are just words that people have taken blown out of proportion and take way to close to heart, a saying of mine when i am called a racist in RL or the Internet is that "I am an equalist, i treat every fucker the same so don't think yourself special", which is true, i know a guy in RL who is pale as hell, we all call him Milky because of the tone of his skin, which is fine by everyone, but if I were a different skin colour it would be counted as racism.

Now I've seen alot of black people going round greeting each other with "What's up My Nigger?", once again if a person of a different skin tone where to say it, it is counted as racism, how ever in high school i came across a south african teacher who told a couple of the black kids off for using that greeting in his class, despite the fact he was black he also saw it as racism having had to word used to berate him back when he lived in South Africa.

I've spoken a lot about RL here but what i wish to get across is that it is the same in RL as it is on the Internet, the only difference is that people are more than likely going to use "racist" remarks on the Internet because they have that fell of being Anonymous, which is pretty weak in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong there is such a thing as Racism, but i think it should only be related to the harsh physical acts committed by others, a while ago there were numerous fire bombings on Chinese restaurants where i live, before they bombed the shop they spray painted offensive slurs on the wall and spray painted swastikas all over the walls.

That given example is clearly Racism, on the internet it is much harder to commit an act like that, for obvious reasons....But to me an act of racism on the in internet would be the excessive harassment via email or even over a forum whether it in a thread or by PM, anything besides that would be quite petty to cite as racism as it is nothing more than harassment, and it isn't like racism can only go one way, every race has some sort of demeaning term, but to me it is nothing more than another word to insult someone.

pretty much to sum everything up:

Racism exists on the Internet, but the effects it has on people are blown out of proportion, all racist insults should fall into the category of harassment like any normal insult would. Unless of course a person is going out of their way to continually berate one person because of their race.

On a final note, my post might make it seem like the usual racist words are nothing and should be used more often, that is not the case, there is a lot of controversy surrounding these words, not everyone shares my opinion on the topic, they are still considered cowardly and last resort, there are millions of insults out there, resorting to ONLY racist insults is a sign of stupidity and unoriginality.

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The Madness

A brief word on cowardice...

I can't stand tough guys on the internet who would not say/do anything in real life. I am sure anyone who has ever been a part of an open online community has had to go through it. This can be anything from physical threats, or verbal abuse.

Now for racism,

It doesn't seem to be THAT big of an issue here so I can't really use examples that would be from here.

I don't really care about it to be honest. Each race has horrifically shit-tastic members, each has stand-up, badass, honorable members.

For example, I live in a very rural, out of the way white town. Almost everyone that I have met from the town (most) are white, and are great people. There are obviously some that are fucking dick shits, but fuck them because I am better.

I deliver pizza in the city, and this city is fucking horrible. It's filled with the scummiest people I have ever seen and I have seen a lot.

Whether the niggers, white trash scum, or spics, they are all equal amounts of fail. They don't maintain their property so the city looks like shit, they leech off of the government with their section 8 welfare homes, and spread crime/disease through the city.

Do I go running up to them when I see them and say, "YOU FUCKING SPIC!!!!"

No...not because of cowardice but because of respect. I won't demean myself by acting no better than them. And you may be saying, "Oh, so you say it behind their backs?" No...I notice them, and usually just keep it in my head, since I have no time to concern myself with their shit.

As far as legal repercussions are concerned, I usually don't bend my will to man's law.

If they were in MY community I would say something obviously, since that would be affecting me. Sounds selfish, but hey...I'm a selfish guy.

Again, that is just a small example. But hopefully if you aren't too retarded you get my point. This isn't the 1950's where I am running around with white hoods burning crosses on innocent peoples lawns. I just see things for what they are.


Bullshit.


I also will not stop using racial slurs because, let's be honest, they are labels and if you can label something/one correctly...why wouldn't you?

If I see a true 'Nigger' I label him as such, same with any other race.

If you care I can obviously list off a brief outline of what makes which person what slur but you should realize it if your head isn't too far up your ass.

I am also very bias towards my race. I am proud as shit to be white. I want my race to be the best, I want to have every white person a functioning, educated, member of society. I feel the same for the other races but I obviously feel it more strongly towards Whites.

Racism on the Internet in my opinion is ok to an extent. If you start excluding people because of their race, it's obvious it's wrong, but if someone calls you a 'nigger' or 'swamp rat' and they are being serious and actually think that way then you should prove them wrong and rise above it. See it as a test not an insult. Don't sink to their level and show them you are above them.

Kind of a hungover rambling but fuck it.

manta

What I'm searching for is when was it that nigger changed from an insult, made from the white man, to a greeting between two black guys? Since years back I've always had that question like say in my country we come from 3 races: white, black and indian. And so racist shit here is not so big because we all have something of the other.

You see white guys with bad hair and black guys with green eyes and white guys nose. The only time I see racism big is when people in my country joke about people from other countries or vice versa. Say a group of friends see this white american guy and start screaming redneck gringo or something like that, or if someone say calls me a spic or mexican out of nowhere in a game (All latins are not mexican dammit!).

It irritates me because its all come down to people trying to separate one from each other, instead of trying to be in peace living together.

Think of it, if it isn't racism, it is some metal vs hip hop kind of shit, if it isn't that its I'm poor you're rich kind of shit, etc etc etc. People will always find a way to hate each other.

Yet a joke sometimes fix those kind of separations, see comedy central you see white guys telling black people jokes and everyone laughs because its funny. A joke is a joke as long as it is not made continuously, because little is enough.

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Trey

Wouldn't that be trolling though?

And if you're talking about in real life, and not online, then it's really just being an asshole for no reason. Because when you're using a racial slur, it's not just insulting that one particular person, it's insulting every person that is of that skin color or demographic. So really, using the excuse "if the asshole deserves to be called that, I'll call him that" is not correct because you're including other, undeserving people in it. Racial slurs are general insults, not specific ones.

Also, it must be noted that the severity of racial slurs, or even racial slurs themselves, vary from area to area. So that can cause confusion and some such when different cultures interact.

Furthermore, some racial slurs are approaching such generality that they could almost (I cannot stress this word enough) pass for insults for anyone. For example, the word "nigger." It's just a highly offensive word that could mean a "very ignorant, offensive person" in general, and not just a black person. Of course, it still has connotations with black people in general, but using it to include other races is not unheard of.

Jokes every so often aren't that bad, and some can be witty/funny even though the vast majority are tasteless. Me personally, I never have to resort to racial slurs. To me, I don't care if you're 'insert race here', we're all the same fundamentally, which is all that matters. Of course I will try to promote my respective race, like madness said, but not if it meant putting other races down. I'm proud to be a black guy, regardless of all the stupidity that my race can display. I won't tolerate being underestimated because I'm black, or put down solely because I'm black, however. I'd rather be judged on my own merits in things I can control (behavior and the like), as should anyone else.

Being one of the minorities on NL, racism isn't really an issue for me. Sure, stereotypes are brought up, but it's mostly harmless. It's shit you shouldn't have to take so seriously, especially when you can't do anything but whine about it. Doesn't mean I think it's okay, or that I condone it. I judge everyone on this site by the way they present themselves in their posts, not by their ethnicity, and I generally expect the same courtesy (of course, dumb shit trolls omitted).

RNB

I think racism is the dumbest issue to make a fuss over because it is suck a shallow issue? Is racism inherently wrong? No. We have to get to the basis of why racism is wrong and attack that. To just say, "Racists are idiots" is the dumbest thing ever.

Also, racism and racist jokes are not offensive to people who have even a hint of intelligence in them. What does racism attack? It uses stereotypes to attack the collective. If you know anything about reductionism you would understand that "the collective" means absolutely nothing.

Secondly, existence precedes essence and that should rip the whole racists argument to pieces. You don't exist as a White person. The only valid way to measure someone's essence is to look at the persons past choices. Can you really choose to be white? No.

It doesn't take a genius to laugh at racism. Why is racism considered so horrible? That is the question I ask. Racism is no worse than somebody saying they dislike the taste of a certain food because it looks bad. It is based off of the same logic (or lack of.) People could say "Well it caused X amount of years of slavery of the X race." They are half-wrong. Racism was an excuse for slavery. Racism was caused by irrationally selfish people who thought they could better there existence by forcing other people to work for them. Racism was caused by low self-esteem. Etc.

Attacking racism as if it is something wrong is exactly like saying Christianity caused the crusades or atheism caused The Great Purges. It is such a shallow issue that it means nothing to say "racism is wrong."

Finally, communication is two-way. You react to certain comments based on choice. You might be forced by a gun or something, but I highly doubt it. Taking offense to something is a choice you make. Most of the time it is because one tries to take the comment as if it were part of his subjective communication techniques. However, there is an objective world. We should do our best to look at the objective first.

Also, many people aren't offended by racist jokes. Around all my black friends we talk about our favorite Dave Chappelle episodes and shit. We make our own jokes. We laugh. It is because we are all friends. Would I go up to a stranger and make a racist joke? Probably not, mainly because I am too lazy to deal with trouble. Would I feel guilty for making a racist joke? Of course not.

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Miburo

In a lot of situations, no. And in the situations that it would, I still wouldn't personally care.

It's just like any other insult. And I can think of tons of reasons to insult someone, so it wouldn't necessarily be done for "no reason."

When I insult someone I'm trying to either upset them, piss them off, or belittle and humiliate them. Usually I'm just trying to belittle them, so I point out exactly how stupid they are and make rational arguments so that others can relate. If I'm trying to upset or piss them off I might do the same thing, of course. But in situations where I can't do that (Like if the person is being a douchebag asshole [And knows it, is doing it purposely, and doesn't give a shit] instead of a straight-up moron) then I'll do other things to upset or enrage them. Like if someone absolutely hates it when you talk about his mom, I'll talk about his mom. Shit like that. And most black guys probably hate it when some white guy calls them a spook or lawn jockey and shit like that. So if I'm trying to piss someone off then it certainly would make sense to use that type of insult.

Does that make me an asshole? Just as much of an asshole as anyone else would would insult anyone using any type of technique, ever, I suppose. I only do that shit when someone is being a humongous douchebag first though, and just counter-attack by being a dick in return. I don't consider that anywhere near as assholeish as originally being an asshole without justifiable provocation, like the guy I'd be being a dick to would be doing. So again, don't really care.

And the "you're insulting an entire group of people" thing, no. I'd be insulting a single person. Just like if I call a person a fag or a moron. Sure, those insults could be applied to all *race* or all homosexuals or all stupid people. But I'm not directing them towards anyone but the person I'm insulting. If other people, that I'm not addressing at all, take offense to it then that's 100% on them.

I would say racists are idiots because there is no logical reason to believe a race of people is inferior to another. And if there is no logical justification to their belief, then for them to make the claim that a race is overall inferior to another is illogical.

RNB

I would agree. I basically was just trying to get an argument across. I don't feel like arguing about terms. Forget I said that.

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DarkAztek

It seems that a few of you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about nor do I care anything about hate crime laws. Let's stay away from that straw man. Also please note that I am even not saying that racism itself is the end all and be all of bad... Especially when it comes to racial jokes. Indeed, I find them funny because I believe that people tend to be more capable of talking about the subject in real life when confronted with the "darkest" side.

What I protest is that many people do not make the same jokes, will not say the same things aloud when they use racial slurs as one-hit-jokes online. Take, for example, our current Spam forum. "Nigger this, nigger that" is pretty much in 90% of some people's posts because they believe it is funny. It's tired out cliche, about as funny as people who still quote Napoleon Dynamite in real life... Or use quotes at all as "one hit bombs" and have no real conversational skills at all. I get the same visceral reaction from reading these things as I do when I witness an obese person eating at McDonalds. I just want to smack them and ask where their sense of self-decency is.

I'm gunna call shenanigans on that one. It's true that someone online could just read elsewhere, but what I am pointing out is the overly-seen, common use racism as a cheap gag. I can't avoid it if I want to read quite a few threads. Where do you get the balls to say that someone cannot be offended? No, it doesn't give them the right to just shut you up because they get offended by your joke... But it does make you a trolling douche to continue to harass when you know that your behavior pisses someone off. At least, this is the case when in public. A private venue might be different.

And yes, Miburo, I understand that sometimes you ARE trying to piss someone off. Yeah, that makes you an asshole but that doesn't make you WRONG in all cases. I'm sure we can all think of a few cases.



Also note on a totally non-debate level: I never, ever "root for" my race. I'm not a man that wants to be labeled by my skin color, I'd rather be labeled for my actions. So why would I ever hope for the best for my race over any other one? I'd like to think that we see each other as people. [/hopefulRant]

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Nakaichiro

My problem is not with the racial slurs in threads, it with the lack of intelligence in threads. Whenever I see a thread devolve into people speaking like they are "Rap Star" wannabees, I immediately exit because i fear for my IQ level. But to me its not about the cowardice of it, its purely about the level of speech. The one thing I hate more than anything is idiocy and a lack of general intelligence.
Not one of my RL friends are what you would call stupid. They might not all have degrees to their names, but lets face it, that is by no means a sign of intelligence.
When dumb people start talking to me, I humor them for about 60 seconds to see if there is maybe a few hidden IQ points that have not revealed themselves. If they stay hidden, I end the conversation, some people think I'm an asshole for that, including my fiance but honestly i could not care any less, dumb is dumb.

Now as for racism as a whole, the longer we humans take notice of racism and cater for it, the more it will stay deep set in our society.
Black people in America have turned the word 'Nigger' around and basically disarmed it. I applaud them for that. But the issue with racism is not whether it is used on the internet, or used in the homes, its because society forces people to pay attention to it.

Take my country for instance, I live in South Africa. I am sure that most people with the general knowledge to debate in this forum have at least a base knowledge of apartheid (Structured Racism) and Nelson Mandela and our new government. So i will avoid the history lesson.
The world celebrated South Africa's democracy in 1994 and our strength to 'abolish' racism. I find the word abolish to leave a very nasty taste in my mouth. I was brought up in a non racist household, I did not even know the concept of racism for many years. When I did I decided that I was not going to be one because it did not make sense to me. But the world forces us to acknowledge racism's existence, and as long as they do that, we will always be a racist society. Here is a simple example

I was too young to be part of apartheid, I had no contribution to it, neither did my family. But now that I am an adult, i have to put up with being told that i cannot get a job (That I am overqualified for) because they have to fill their quota of black people in the company (99.5% of the time, either not qualified for it or just simply less qualified than myself). So the government is forcing me to sit in hallway, staring at a black kid that is still wet behind his ears and straight out of high school, challenging me for a position in a company. Because this particular position is what we call AA (Affirmative action) he will get it over me.
How can any government hope to abolish racism by reprimanding you for being a certain skin color, or for stating the skin color of someone else. That is like a father telling his son that hitting kids is not right, but then whacks his kid every time he looks sideways at something. The kid is not going to be a passive person, he is going to hit first and ask question later.
The same rule applies in every first world country. You get mugged by a black guy for instance, when you give your statement to the police, stating that the guy was black is now racist. What shit is that.

As long as the governments police us around our skin colour, we will all always be racist to a certain degree.

In 200 years white people will wonder why the fuck they cannot call a guy with black skin, "Black". Someone will point out slavery and racism from hundreds of years ago and say, "we are all equal, there is no need to point out a guys race". The intelligent guy will turn around and go, "perfect, now i notice that black somehow means that he is from another race, and I cannot call him black because of shit that happened 300 years ago, but he can call me white and all is good. So you know what fuck that, I dont like this black race because they are playing on the prejudices of the past. And the wheel will keep on turning.

Policing racism, or judging people on the internet for using racist remarks is just another compression of the bellows that keep the fire burning. The only way to abolish racism is if the whole world grows the fuck up and stops taking shit to heart. If i call you a fucking asshole, then so be it. Your friends are not going to take offense to it. Now if your black and i call you a 'nigger' or a 'kaffer', all your friends now take offense because its a "Racial Slur". I call people racial slurs, not because of their race, but because of their attitude in general. A law breaker in any way is a 'Insert racial slur' to me, White, Black, Indian, Colored or Chinese does not matter. Rapists, robbers, hicjackers, murderers, etc... are all going to get this word thrown at them because asshole just does not fit.
I am not aiming that word at their race because I use it on every race. I am aiming it at the person in general. But as long as the world continues to take racial slurs to heart, when it is not directed at them, the longer we are going to be a broken society. And you dont have to be Nostradamus to predict that one day in the future, one side will just snap and start full blown widespread racial violence.
Black people taking offense to archaic racial slurs contributes.
Governments reprimanding only one side of the racial barrier for using a racial slur against the other side is going to contribute to an imbalance.

Back on topic:
People who dont have the balls to use the same face on the internet as they do in real life are pond scum. But why must racial slurs be any worse than a personal attack at someone's supposed character? In my view, the people who take offense to racial slurs that are not directed at them are the exact same kind of pond scum, because they are just contributing to the inevitable implosion. Grow up and act civil in all aspects, racial or personal, why must we perceive one as a more serious offense than the other?

RNB

Most of the time I don't think it is funny either. However, should I get pissed off when people laugh at things that I don't think are funny? Come on now.

I am not saying someone cannot be offended. All I am saying is that when someone takes offense to something it is because of themselves. Words are not physical force. Someone could take offense to someone saying "Hello!" if they want to. Is the person saying "Hello!" now a bad person because someone took offense to his words? No.

And you could say racism is a completely different issue, but you would be wrong. If racist jokes are intended to be jokes, then we have the exact same situation. Someone gets offended by something because they interpret the comment as if it were directed at them.

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Miburo

How is that a straw man? If you're going to potentially be severely punished for saying something then it makes for a perfectly valid reason to avoid doing so that doesn't necessarily involve cowardice. For example, I'm sure most people wouldn't call someone who downloads music through a P2P program a coward if he wouldn't steal music CDs from a store. Yet he is technically stealing something online, but wouldn't steal offline. The risk of unavoidable punishment from a higher authority is exponentially greater in one scenario than in the other.

Now, if one avoids saying something offline that they would say online because they are no longer anonymous or the person they're saying it to is now in a position to stomp his face in, then yeah. That is cowardly. In those cases you're fearing a confrontation with your peers. They hold no higher authoritative power over you.

However, now that I think about it, criticizing others and calling them cowards because they wouldn't say something offline that they would online is a bit harsh. It's an entirely different setting, after all. Just like the things you say in front of your friends are probably a lot different than the things you would say to your grandparents, strangers, etc. I don't see a problem with that.

I address the 'cowardly' label because that was the argument that seemed to be most prevalent in the original post. Saying something online you wouldn't say offline. The Freudian explanation is bullshit. There is no way to tell if someone is saying something to compensate for a shortcoming elsewhere, it's baseless speculation. Not everyone is just following the crowd. And not saying something in certain situations, yet saying it in others, shows that one does recognize that his words have consequences. Therefore, it's entirely possible for someone who makes racist remarks online, yet doesn't offline, to not fall within the four negative labels you presented.


Sounds more like your problem has more to do with people who just suck at being funny over racism on the interwebs. Because someone who says "I herd u lyke mudkipz hurr hurr" over and over is just as witless as someone who says "nigger" over and over.

Not that I blame you, of course. Those guys suck. =D

Trey

It's totally reasonable to get offended by a joke, especially one as potentially offensive as a racial joke can be as they are based on negative stereotypes on certain races to ridicule them or put them in an awkward light. Sure, the person(s) offended will vary, but just because some people won't get offended by a racist joke doesn't make it "okay" to make one.

Obviously, a person can choose to be offended to anything, but your analogy is assuming every word is the same thing. "Hello" is meant to be interpreted as a standard greeting and nothing else, whereas a racial slur is intended to be an insult of a person based on stereotypes and a factor they can't control (skin color). So based on that, the person being offended by "hello" looks a shit-ton more stupid than the person insulted by a racial slur.

I would file the illogical belief that you, and your respective race, are superior to another based on nothing other than the color of your skin under "stupidity".