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Old 11-13-2009, 04:20 PM   #1
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How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

Ok, I’ve been thinking about how and why Kisame qualifies for wielding the Samehada while the other two Mist Swordsmen to our knowledge gets weapons that doesn’t even compare with Kisame’s. Last week in the discussions threads, I brought up something that I was half-assing however, I think it has much more merit given what we know about the Samehada’s characteristics. Also Numinous gave me the idea in the prediction threads.

For one, let’s look at Zabuza and Chojuro’s blades.

Zabuza’s Head Beheading Cleaver doesn’t seem to have any special properties besides the fact that it’s a thick slab of iron. Though, it requires insane physical strength to wield it otherwise, the weapon basically impractical for use. Though, considering that Zabuza and Suigetsu were gifted swordsmen and were trained to wield said weapon, the drawbacks aren’t really apparent.

Chojuro’s Hiramekarei seems to constantly have chakra fester around its form when released. In combat, it propels a force of chakra at the opponent, knocking them across the field. Given its extremely wide shape and the fact that it has two hilts, probably mean the shinobi has to have some skill level to use it effectively in combat.

Now, we have Kisame’s Samehada, which is leagues more effective that the other two swords as it absorbs opponent’s chakras, severs jutsu (well before the shinobi gets the technique out), and transmits chakra over to the wielder, increasing his overall chakra capacity.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page014.html

But why does Kisame get such a badass sword while Zabuza gets a heavy slab of iron? I’m under the impression that by being the master of the Samehada, the wielder must pay a heavy cost therefore, there wasn’t anyone as crazed, or deranged enough to choose the Samehada.

Another thing we have noticed, the Samehada obeys only its master, and lashes out against anyone who isn’t Kisame, so I’m under the assumption that Kisame made a kind of pact or, even blood contract with the weapon (which is obviously alive).

Anyway, here are my main two reasons as to why Kisame ended up with Samehada while other potentially worthy candidates passed it over.

Reason one: It turns the shinobi’s physical appearance into a beast. Look it, how many people in Mizugakure resembles a humanoid shark? I mean some have sharp teeth, but no one remotely favors Kisame. And it just so happens that his weapon translates to Shark Skin (or, something along those lines). In my opinion, that is one of the reasons why many could have steered from it as they didn’t want to end up becoming inhuman at the cost of strength.

Reason two: Perhaps the ultimate price. We know that the Samehada feeds on the chakra of others however, it also transmit portions of that chakra over to the wielder. But, let’s say what happens if the shinobi doesn’t obey Samehada’s cravings. What do you think could happen? In my opinion, I think for punishment for not keeping up the bargain, it either consumes the host or, exhausts the host of its existing chakra (which would effectively cause death). I say this is the second major price therefore only a menacing killer who enjoys the sport could handle the risks of the Samehada. It makes sense in my opinion. Look at how Kisame is regarded to be a Bijuu with no tail. Imagine how much chakra he had to rip out in order to rise to such status. If a Bijuu’s chakra is nearly immeasurable, just how many victims did Kisame have to take? My guess many.

I say the reason why Kisame wields the Samehada and others might have passed it up, was because they weren’t filled with as much blood lust, or had'nt the desire to shed every facet of humanity in order to become a perfect killing machine; also, they didn’t want the sword to completely dictate their lifestyle. Kisame, who doesn’t give a damn about his appearance, or for the victims he has to mercilessly slay (or the Samehada turns on him instead) wields the weapon flawlessly as it fits his character. And for keeping up the bargain, the Samehada feeds some of the chakra it absorbs from its victims with Samehada, so it is a kind of symbiotic relations between host and sword. But, in actuality, Kisame is a slave who is forced to kill on a basis in which the sword craves for hunger (so Kisame goes out slaughters several people if needed). And even if Kisame didn’t feel like feeding his sword, it isn’t like he can ditch the thing.lol It absorbs chakra and it will find its way back to the wielder.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...8/page002.html

Hops right back to him…

I'm also wondering if Samehada is a sword at all. Maybe, just maybe its some kind of super natural beast that was causing trouble in Mizugakure.lol Got sealed however, didn't want the power to go to waste (yata yata), so it was sealed into the blade however, it carried over some of its characteristics.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:46 PM   #2
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

A little busy so can't comment fully. Zabuza's blade would be weak against Choujirou because his is a chakra weapon while choujirou's would be weak Against Kisame's because his eats chakra. However Zabuza's weapon doesn't require chakra conjunction to be effective giving it an edge over Kisame's. With enough skill someone wielding Zabuza's can kill someone wielding Kisame's because Kisame's only shaves & steals chakra while Zabuza's can easily cut off a head based on it's design.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:56 PM   #3
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

I'm just talking about the effects it gives Kisame that seems almost op. Bijuu level chakra, instant recovery, and this new fusion thing. Also, his new form sprouts blades and what not. Zabuza's blade is effective however, Kisame's can potentially make him invincieble to a degree. Though, I think there are draw backs to it.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:08 PM   #4
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

Good Thread.

Perhaps. It could been another reason such as:

1. The Fourth Mizukage probably killed everyone in his clan. But Kisame escaped somehow due to some "special talent" like Sasuke and was taken in. Samehada is probably his clan's blade OR it could be a blade that once the "original" user dies. Samehada loses that connection until someone else touches it's hilt to restore it.

That is a powerful sword. There is some mechanism to use it. But Kishi hasn't revealed it yet.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:41 PM   #5
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

Good thread indeed.

Another reason behind the kisame/samehada relationship could be that kisame is the result of scientific experiments. Certainly Oro wasn't the first ninja to mess around with DNA and forbidden jutsu's. Maybe the mist village decided to make an artificial jinchuuriki and he wasn't exactly what they expected. Maybe they feared his power and decided to abandon that research. Maybe he's so powerful that the artificial jinchuriiki couldn't be completely sealed in his body so part of it had to be sealed in a sword. Something similar to the 1st espada from bleach. That would explain why they both have shark-like appearances and why samehada obeys kisame.

Another possibility is that the mist village created samehada specifically for kisame. So far it hasn't been said that kisame was the first person to wield it. Every legendary weapon has to be created by someone. So what's to say that villages aren't still making them now.
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:44 PM   #6
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

got this from mangahelpers which says they got this from narutofan. it's not directly linked with your questions about samehada, but somehow there are japanese lores that pertain to samehada,maybe we can find answers from here.i just don't know the validity of this one, anyways it is a good read.

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Three Tails (Sanbi),
Isonade
Tale in the Legend of the Tailed Beasts: Isonade is a shark shaped Bijuu with a sharp horn on the forehead. It lives in the deep waters on the West of Japan, fighting pirates. Every few months, Isonade will swim to the surface of the sea from the deep waters, to breath some fresh air. However, when he does this, storms erupt, oceans rage, and all ships will be swallowed by him as food. Isonade has a subordinate fish called Samehada (?) (Same name as Kisame's Sword. Depicted differently, but with same pronunciation). Samehada attaches itself to Isonade’s stomach, and absorbs its food to create huge amounts of chakra, proceeding to send it back to its body. Samehada’s power can enable Isonade to get 5 times the quantity of chakra it could originally get. Therefore, when Isonade battles, he will have unlimited chakra to receive from Samehada.
Situation in the Ancient War of the 9 Gods: Battled 4 times; 2 Wins, 1 Loss, 1 Flee
Wins: Kaku, Shukaku
Losses: Nekomata
Escapes: Yamata no Orochi
Fate: A fisherman and brave warrior from Yokohama, called Takuma Muramasa, sacrifices himself in behalf of two villages in a courageous act, getting near Isonade and sealing his personal servant Samehada in the “Tool of Power: Pot of the Shark-named fish” from seal in the Water Shrine. Isonade then becomes unable to draw the massive chakra, and ends up getting exausted and sucked by the Tool’s seal in the Water Shrine as well.
Japanese Myth Appearance: A big shark/fish(?) with 3 tails and 3 fins. Has a dark blue body color, is attracted by blood (like all sharks); has a personal servant, a small fish named Samehada, as shown above, that is responsible to help Isonade absorb and digest Chakra in 5 times his original capacity.
Ability: Generic water powers, can control the currents of water.
Bijuu Strength Ranking: 6th
Bijuu Chakra/Stamina Ranking: 7th
Symbolic Element: Water (God of Water)
Origin / Discovered in: Four Nanju Country Islands - Yawagawa Sea Area (*COUGH*Nanju is Kisame's Akatsuki Rank*COUGH*)
Personal notes: Well, if this bijuu doesn’t scream KISAME to you, then this note is indeed useful. The Samehada connection is frightening (absorbs chakra), but there can be more about it, explaining WHY Kisame’s chakra reserve is SO big (as being the biggest in Akatsuki).
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:34 AM   #7
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

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I'm also wondering if Samehada is a sword at all. Maybe, just maybe its some kind of super natural beast that was causing trouble in Mizugakure.lol Got sealed however, didn't want the power to go to waste (yata yata), so it was sealed into the blade however, it carried over some of its characteristics.
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got this from mangahelpers which says they got this from narutofan. it's not directly linked with your questions about samehada, but somehow there are japanese lores that pertain to samehada,maybe we can find answers from here.i just don't know the validity of this one, anyways it is a good read.
edit:
I think it will be revealed that weapons can be made from beasts or parts of beasts. I think the Kusanagi Sword of Japanese Myth was supposed to have been from Orochi's tail originally.
edit:
Here's one that I've suspected since I first saw it...
I could definitely be wrong, but this funky weapon here...http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/326/07/
looks like it might have been the shrunken down eye of this fella here...
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/01/
It could be that this creature had been getting robbed of pieces and parts since it was extracted from it's original host. Hopefully Kisame will tell the tale before he gets killed.

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Old 11-14-2009, 08:58 PM   #8
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

Now I'm getting to thinking again with you guys responses. If I remeber this right, about two hosts originated from Mizugakure.

I thinking it's possible that Mizugakure could have experimented with the weapon's success rate by exposing it to Bijuu chakra. I'm also wondering if Yuura the 4th Mizukage could have been invovled with the Samehada in some way, shape, or form.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:22 PM   #9
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

^ I suppose anything goes back them. They didn't call them the blood mist village for nothing. How about the possibility that Yurra tried to infuse the 3-tails blood/DNA into Kisame or samehada and the 3-tail got loose in the process. Or maybe Kisame tried to take the 3-tails power and it got loose that way. Kishi really needs to explain more about the 4th mizukage and the 3-tails. It's so not fair that madara just says she was his puppet and leaves us hanging. I think we will find out more later.

Does anyone else find it strange that if the 4th mizukage was madara's puppet that kisame would abandon his village to join akatsuki. Why would that be? Wouldn't kisame have been able to do anything he wanted. If madara was a former mizukage himself and his succesor was his puppet why didn't he have complete control of that village like pain had in his. Nobody even had to know he was still alive. He could have given orders from the shadows while the 4th Mizukage was his proxy. Also he would have had control of a major ninja village and pains village too. So somethings not adding up.

Edit: It just can to mind that if madara was a former mizukage he must have some powerful water techs. I doubt he would have kept everyone in line just with his stupid teleporting trick. Thats proves he has other techs besides his teleporting. The only other possibility is that he genjutsu'd everyone into seeing him use s-ranked water jutsu, but that's highly unlikely.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:24 PM   #10
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

Looking like a godd*mn shark is a major backdraw IMO
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:50 PM   #11
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

Quote:
Does anyone else find it strange that if the 4th mizukage was madara's puppet that kisame would abandon his village to join akatsuki. Why would that be? Wouldn't kisame have been able to do anything he wanted. If madara was a former mizukage himself and his succesor was his puppet why didn't he have complete control of that village like pain had in his. Nobody even had to know he was still alive. He could have given orders from the shadows while the 4th Mizukage was his proxy. Also he would have had control of a major ninja village and pains village too. So somethings not adding up.
Yeah, something is definitely fishy there. Based off Kisame's background and all, he became a missing-nin and a s-ranked criminal because he started assasinating the fuedal lords. He fled the village because they were tracking him however, if Madara was the person pulling the strings, Kisame shouldn't have been in danger. Kisame isn't that old either, so he couldn't have been a rogue for too long.

The only possible explanation I came come up with, is that Kisame must have fled his village some time around the time Zabuza left the village behind therefore, it would be reasonable to think that Madara's influences over Mizugakure crumbled (via Ao's Byakugan seeing through the genjutsu) in an acceptable time period, given order to the time and place and what not. But the latter is indeed just speculation but I do agree that there are some inconsistancies here...
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:16 PM   #12
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

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Yeah, something is definitely fishy there. Based off Kisame's background and all, he became a missing-nin and a s-ranked criminal because he started assasinating the fuedal lords. He fled the village because they were tracking him however, if Madara was the person pulling the strings, Kisame shouldn't have been in danger. Kisame isn't that old either, so he couldn't have been a rogue for too long.

The only possible explanation I came come up with, is that Kisame must have fled his village some time around the time Zabuza left the village behind therefore, it would be reasonable to think that Madara's influences over Mizugakure crumbled (via Ao's Byakugan seeing through the genjutsu) in an acceptable time period, given order to the time and place and what not. But the latter is indeed just speculation but I do agree that there are some inconsistancies here...
According to leafninja.com Kisame is 32?! That seems a little too young to me. I would have guessed he was in his 40's. For kisame to have met madara when he was mizukage madara must have been the 3rd mizukage and yagura couldn't have been kage for maybe 5-10 years. Otherwise kisame would have just been a kid when madara was mizukage.

Since you brought up Ao's byakugan it got me thinking that the seal on his eye seems very powerful. For his village place such a seal shows they have knowledge of high level sealing techs. Not to mention that they have bijuu sealing techs to make jinchuuriki. So it's not far fetched to believe they would try other sealing experiments on people or objects.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:36 PM   #13
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

I thought about this then came up with this idea for a story. Hope you like it. A nice origin story idea.

The story of the cursed sword and the rise of kisame

The story of samehada and Kisame begins centuries ago in small village during a horrific summer murder spree by a vile shark that preyed on wayward fishermen. With little means to catch the shark nor kill it, the fishermen called upon the powers of a vile shaman to eliminate the shark. The shaman however recognized in the shark was a spirit that could not die because its dark soul would always keep it alive. So the shaman decided to harness the power of the shark by pulling the dark soul of the mighty shark from its body and into a simple crude sword fashioned by village's blacksmith as a weapon to kill the shark. The new sword was then hidden away by the shaman as he went to collect payment for killing the shark. The fishermen however had other ideas as they did not like paying off the shaman so instead they killed him. As shaman lay dieing he cursed the people of that village to carry forever the taint of the shark that had once attacked their village. Henceforth their strongest warriors would all assume sharklike features as a reminder of their hidden beastly nature. The shaman then died and his body was mutilated into fish bait.

Later the fishermen came to raid the shaman's home and discovered the sword. The blacksmith of the village accepted the sword since it was made for killing the shark but when he picked it up the sword reacted by exposing his shark like features. Horrified at his curse, the blacksmith vowed to find a way to destroy the sword but alas the dark soul of the sword refused to die. Without the ability to destroy the sword, the blacksmith hid the sword in a cavern deep below the village and prayed he would never encounter the sword again.

Decades later, a young student by the name of kisame was about to graduate from his training. His masters had always considered him to be an amazing student with a true mastery of the sword but he also had one other problem. He knew no self control while in battle so hence he was often withheld from graduation in hopes that maybe someone could teach him to cool his bloodlust. As kisame awaited graduation, he was informed that he would not be graduating with the others because he still had not learned self control. Furious at losing another year of training, kisame fled the village to the catacombs beneath.

As he trudged deeper into the catacombs he felt a bloodlust equal to his own echoing in his mind. Entranced by its desire similar to his own, Kisame went deeper into the catacombs until at last he found the sword. As he picked it up for the first time, kisame could feel the hunger of the blade and its desire for blood. As if by nature, Kisame returned to the village late at night and challenged his old teacher who had denied him graduation. The teacher at first played with the student but his humor turned to fear as his body was weakened by the powers of the sword. As the teacher lay spent and weak, Kisame discovered the true power of the sword and vowed to never let it leave his side. The sword at the same time recognized in him the same bloodlust as its own and accepted him as its master. Kisame then proceeded to kill his teacher and attempt to dispose of the body.

From that day on kisame continued to show a skill that few had ever seen before. Whenever he fought in battle, he never seemed to lose no matter how great the odds were. In responce to this, Kisame was allowed to graduate and become a swordsman. However kisame was given little time to enjoy his new title before disaster struck. The body of his old teacher was discovered and those who feared kisame conspired to eliminate him. So they one day cornered kisame but little did they realize just how powerful kisame had become. One by one kisame attacked all of them with vile strength that knew no bounds. One by one they were massacred as Kisame revelled in his new found power.

As the dust settled, Kisame discovered he had destroyed not just his attackers but also much of the people who had once been his friends. It was then that kisame realized he had wasted his bloodlust for when it was not needed. Now he had no reason to stay in the village as there were very few in the village who would ever allow him to be a great swordsman. Humbled by his own actions and their consquences, kisame fled the village in search of a person who would employ his bloodlust and put it to a proper use that would advance his lust for power while feeding his endless bloodlust. On day he did return to that same village but that is a story for another time.

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Old 11-14-2009, 11:25 PM   #14
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

^That was a good story. I'm also wondering if that logic could have applied to why Kisame killed the fuedal lords. Kisame is an explosive combatant however, he isn't dumb enough to try and spark an intential national uproar with no supporters. My guess is that they feared Kisame's murderous impulses, so they aimed to rid him from existence.

Since he was recognized as a Sevenmist swordsmen, I'm sure the other members grew aware as well, even Chojuro (who is most certainly an inheritor of his weapon and the new recruit, knows about the threat of Kisame).
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Old 11-14-2009, 11:50 PM   #15
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Re: How he got it (Kisame obviously)? Serious stuff.

2 things just came to mind.

1. When kisame fought team Gai with his 30% clone neji compared his chakra to a bijuu. So if that was only 30% of his power wouldn't that mean he really has about 3 times the power of an average bijuu, plus now that he's absorbed a lot of the 8-tails(along with most of KB"S own chakra), and he must have absorbed a lot from the 4-tails he fought. So his true chakra level could be unimaginable.

2. He doesn't have to kill people to eat their chakra! He just swings samehada and it eats it. He doesn't even have to make contact. So why doesn't he just do like Orochimaru and find a few strong ninja and lock them up. Everyday he could go into their cell and absorb most of their chakra. As long as their fed and taken care off his prisoners should naturally replace the lost chakra with a good nights sleep. Kisame could do this everyday and build up his chakra supply to extreme levels. He wouldn't even need a lot of prisoners, just 5-10 above average shinobi would be enough.
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