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Old 11-23-2009, 04:39 PM   #241
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Kakashi87 View Post
Well that's Naruto's choice, he chose to chase after the only peer to ever truely acknowledge him and his power from the get go. He feels a sense of duty to bring him back be he feels that Sasuke is not evil but simply misguided. Because of that he's developed feelings that surpasses friendship. What would you call that if not gay? Naruto simply shows those tendencies and we are just pointing them out. In the end it might be he is just a regurlar straight guy but thats not the point. Gay or not this series makes for a good read even though the story can get stretched with the things Kishi does just for the sake of plot but that is what happens in a long running series. You have your ups and downs but in the end Naruto is a pretty decent series. Better than Bleach at least.
I see it as childish and dumb more than gay.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:45 PM   #242
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
I wonder how the first post, that mainly consists of misinterpretation, exageration and ignorance, can actually convince some people.
Everybody who actually read that post should've realised that the reasons for Naruto's homosexuality are way to far-fetched and the possibility of it being true is five percent at best.

Really, I'm at a loss, where I should start to dissect this "theory" since I disagree with almost every point he makes.
It's not ignorance, it's conscious trolling. I'm amazed how they did this. Is this how you showcase your intelligence and indirectly call people dumb, eh Miburo?
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:49 PM   #243
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by sasorry View Post
Isn't the purpose of this thread to give proof that naruto is gay? And I for one am just try to detract it. That's the purpose of debates isn't it?
Actually, that's exactly how you DO NOT debate. You admitted to not reading the theory that was presented in it's entirety. So there is no possible way you could produce a counter-argument that wouldn't be a straw-man. And since if you job in the debate is to produce a counter-argument that isn't logically fallacious, you've failed at debating your point pretty hard.

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Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
I wonder how the first post, that mainly consists of misinterpretation, exageration and ignorance, can actually convince some people.
Everybody who actually read that post should've realised that the reasons for Naruto's homosexuality are way to far-fetched and the possibility of it being true is five percent at best.
As opposed to your brilliantly constructed and amazingly convincing counter-argument, amirite?

And 5%? I'm sure you can produce a logical explanation showing how you came up with that specific percentage. No way that it's just an ignorant exaggeration with no backing to it whatsoever...

@Sasorry-What? I didn't even make this thread.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:58 PM   #244
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Actually, that's exactly how you DO NOT debate. You admitted to not reading the theory that was presented in it's entirety. So there is no possible way you could produce a counter-argument that wouldn't be a straw-man. And since if you job in the debate is to produce a counter-argument that isn't logically fallacious, you've failed at debating your point pretty hard.



As opposed to your brilliantly constructed and amazingly convincing counter-argument, amirite?

And 5%? I'm sure you can produce a logical explanation showing how you came up with that specific percentage. No way that it's just an ignorant exaggeration with no backing to it whatsoever...

@Sasorry-What? I didn't even make this thread.
As i've seen here people do posts counterarguments, but you trolls fail to acknowledge it. You are bias to the TS that's what I see, blind to what others have to say and argue with those who have good points. Good job moderator.

Oh, naruto is gay... Happy now?
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:11 PM   #245
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by sasorry View Post
As i've seen here people do posts counterarguments, but you trolls fail to acknowledge it. You are bias to the TS that's what I see, blind to what others have to say and argue with those who have good points. Good job moderator.
You haven't shown you know what a counter-argument or a good point even is... And no, I just happen to think it's a well-thought out, logical theory. I'm completely open-minded about it, I couldn't care less if Naruto is gay or not. The topic creator made good points, and most people arguing against him have admitted to either just being homophobes or to not even reading his posts. And you play the biased card. lololol
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:14 PM   #246
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
I wonder how the first post, that mainly consists of misinterpretation, exageration and ignorance, can actually convince some people.
Everybody who actually read that post should've realised that the reasons for Naruto's homosexuality are way to far-fetched and the possibility of it being true is five percent at best.

Really, I'm at a loss, where I should start to dissect this "theory" since I disagree with almost every point he makes.
I don't know, why don't you start with the beginning, instead of making a more verbose version of the "LOL THIS THREAD IS STUPID HURR" post?
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:27 PM   #247
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Haha this funny, for every person that disagree with the geek squad you gang up against him/her.

Why don't you take this to the court and see if you win???

I'm more for naruto being bisexual than gay as he clearly shows he has a crush on sakura, and an obsession for sasuke. he can go bothways for all i care.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:38 PM   #248
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Well... To be honest, you guys are complaining about the Red Names' tactic but are doing very similar things. Besides, I'm not gunna do shit here because nobody even bothered to respond to my posts outlining the VERY BASICS of the OP's point. I even used formal logic so there's no "hurr hurr this is bullshit" from you guys.

I declare a challenge: One of you write up, in formal logic (either deductive or inductive, I don't care) why Naruto isn't gay. Please.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:56 PM   #249
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

I doubt any of them can present a formal logic presentation of why he isn't gay.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:13 PM   #250
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by sasorry View Post
All I see are panels made by you guys to prove naruto is gay
What panels were made by us? Also, where in Tzu's post does it say "prove"?

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Originally Posted by sasorry View Post
am I missing something?
I would say so. In life, it's generally helpful to not only look at the pictures, but read the words. That's where most of the information is concealed.

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Originally Posted by sasorry View Post
Edit: Conspiracy theorists for the win!
Look, you suck at teh funny, and you suck at teh debate. Stop making a fool out of yourself.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:10 PM   #251
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo
As opposed to your brilliantly constructed and amazingly convincing counter-argument, amirite?
Hope you like it, took me long enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon
I don't know, why don't you start with the beginning, instead of making a more verbose version of the "LOL THIS THREAD IS STUPID HURR" post?
Nice idea... well here I go:

Quote:
Whilst it is an accident, it's intriguing that Mashashi Kishimoto had Naruto and Sasuke kiss, whilst in other shonen manga like Dragon Ball, the main character acts inappropriately with a female cast member (http://www.onemanga.com/Dragon_Ball/2/13/).This is likewise the same even in sloppy seconds like Bleach.
What kind of comparison is this? If there's something to be compared to this Dragon Ball scene, it should be the fact, that Naruto knows much more about girls than Son Goku did.
In fact, at the beginning of the story Kishi made it clear to point out differences between Naruto and Goku, like the frequently explained Kage Bunshin no Jutsu that creates real Bodys in opposition to Gokus Bunshin no Jutsu that only creates mirages or Naruto saying "I can still fight on an empty stomach" or the fact that unlike Vegeta, Narutos main rival is intruduced early in the story not to mention the fact that unlike the always-the-strongest Goku, Naruto started as "dead last" of his group... These differences are there, so that Naruto doesn't look like a copy of Dragon Ball although it is fact heavily influenced by it (as are most Shounen series)
OT: Where exactly does Ichigo act inappropriately with a female cast member in Bleach?

Quote:
The important thing isn't so much that Naruto and Sasuke actually kiss, it's that the author attempts to make the audience already begin to think of sexual tension between the characters. Naruto doesn't accidentally kiss Sakura, and whilst kissing Sasuke could be argued for shock value as part of the humour, with the other evidence we are about to examine it appears become less likely.
Ok, I DID see tension between them before the kiss, but I'm 100% sure that this tension was nothing sexual. This was the typical glare that shows: "These two don't get along", or considering Narutos opinion was already clear: "Sasuke doesn't like him either". The kiss itself was only for the comedy part and an example how Naruto get's in Sakuras way (as she mentions later that chaoter), keep in mind that Japanese really treasure their first kiss and Sakura intended to steal it from Sasuke.
And it's quite obvious why Naruto wouldn't accidentally kiss Sakura: She would beat him up, should he ever invade her private space like he did with Sasuke.

Quote:
Naruto’s professed love for Sakura is a weak argument. Naruto has tended to only justify his attraction to her based upon her appearance (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/3/04/, when Jiraiya prepares him for death in training etc.), he hasn’t shown any development of this to admiration of her personality or behaviour. This suggests that his love for her is merely a crush, and something that can easily be mimicked – after all Lee has a crush on Sakura, and Naruto also witnesses most of the girls in his age group crushing on Sasuke. To have gotten this far in the manga, it’s strange for Naruto not to have mentioned something solid that he actually likes about her other than her appearance. Even instances when he appreciates her talents, such as after the time skip, are no different from when he witnesses the change in other characters.
Naruto never never based his crush/love/however you call it on anything, not even on appearance (the page doesn't really help here). In fact he says that he doesn't know the reason himself when he transformed into Sasuke and nearly kissed her. Does anybody think a possibly gay character would have this kind of heartbeat when facing a girl he pretends to love? Looks genuine to me, at least at that point, post timeskip might be a total different thing.

Quote:
When Sakura also confesses her love to Naruto, Naruto is blasé to it. If Naruto honestly did have an attraction to Sakura he’d have had a more emotional response in his belief of her lying to him. After being rejected so long by Sakura Naruto should be expected to be less cool to her recent behaviour in the manga.
He said "I hate people who lie to themselves", considering how Sakura reacted to Karui's question (the last time Naruto and Sakura met before the confession) its obvious he meant her "getting over Sasuke". Since he practically told her "I hate you", I wonder how much emotional he should have gotten (keeping in mind his character development from hotheaded to coolheaded).
Not to mention that lavender-eyed girl that heard a similar yet different phrase coming from Naruto's mouth.


Quote:
With Sasuke on the other hand, Naruto is freely able to talk emotionally about why he considers Sasuke to be his best friend. Naruto talks of the brotherly bond which they share, the feeling of being whole around him and their companions, and the pain he feels when Sasuke is and has left him. Pages also suggest physical love (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/09/). Naruto is even able to give up on his dreams of Hokage because of the pain Sasuke has caused him by deserting Konoha and team 7.
Naruto talks to all his (rival) opponents about his feelings, since they always have something in common, mostly the lonelyness they suffered. Sasuke is a special case, though since he's considered his friend. On the one hand it's the typical "Your biggest enemy understands you better than anybody else" Cliché that's a part of Naruto, on the other hand talking is the only way to pretend unnecessary fighting in that situation. The suggestion of physical love is either an exageration or I'm misinterpreting the definition of physical love. Two ten(?, at least its not the 13-year-old-versions) year old boys shaking hands don't seem gay to me.
Oh and of course, Naruto can talk to a girl about hin feelings, it's just not Sakura, but you can guess who. It's also not that strange for Naruto to have problems talking freely to the girl he loves.
Concerning him giving up on becoming Hokage: He never said that, he only said, that saving a friend has a higher priority since he wouldn't deserve that title if he couldn't even do that. Also keep in mind that his dream to become Hokage is only a means to fulfill his true desire: Being recognised by the village.

Quote:
Naruto also tries his hardest to be like Sasuke, causing him to catch up to him as a rival in ability. Sakura attempts to do the same, and it’s insightful that the Naruto acts in the same way to the person she supposedly loves. Naruto is appears to be oblivious to Hinata’s attraction to him, and even when she confesses her love and almost dies for him, he doesn’t make an effort to consolidate his relationship with her. He seems to be not interested in women in general, which is furthered by his lack of interest in Jiraiya’s books despite others in the manga obsessing over them (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/245/12/), and by his inobservant view of Sakura after puberty (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/245/15/).
Well to Sakura it would seem stranger if Naruto, the I-won't-go-back-on-my-word-guy would not do anything he could to fulfill the once-in-a-lifetime-promise she asked of him. In fact she IS shocked to learn how far Naruto is ready to go to fulfill that promise (but fails to realise that Kyuubi getting out of control isn't the onle issue here). Sakura was just as oblivious to Narutos feelings as he was to Hinatas feelings. At least Naruto was avare that he didn't understand Hinata while Sakura had to get lectured by Sai of all people... Anyway, Naruto is too occupied to really show interest in other girl, since the timeskip he's been either training or out on a mission, so there wasn't much time for private live.
Also there are two possible explanations for Narutos decreasing interest in Sakura:
1. He wants to wait until after Sasukes return to the village, so that they can be rivals about Sakura or
2. He has given up on Sakura and now supports the SasuXSaku pairing.

Regarding Hinatas Confession: I'm really sure that we will see a flashback showing a conversation between Naruto and Hinata. I expect him to have said something like "First I'll get Sasuke back, then we'll go on a date" since he didn't know about Sasuke joining Akatsuki and therefore could have been too optimistic.

Not liking Jirayas novels doesn't make him gay either. No only doesn't taste equal sexual orientation in that matter (especially since it's not a decision between heterosexual and homosexual fiction), but Naruto also helped in the creation of the book, which makes it less interesting to read the completed work.Did I mention the biggest fan of these novels sticking his fingers into other peoples asses and eventually saying "Naruto, I love you"? (Daisuki can be translated as both: like and love. It's also been used by Naruto when he talked to Hinata)
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:13 PM   #252
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

And here's part 2...

Quote:
Critics will of course raise the issue of Naruto’s interest in the female form, and his encouragement of Konohamaru in the same practices. This is flawed, as although Naruto does look at heterosexual porn and attempts to spy on naked women, he has only done this successfully so far in order to transform himself into a beautiful woman in order to attract men

(http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/1/10/). This sex change allows him to flirt openly with his master Jiraiya, in a clearly sexual manner, encouraging pederasty (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/07/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/08/). Likewise, he instructs Konohamaru to do the same – and the end product leads to Konohamaru presenting homosexual acts using the technique (http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0225922/10.jpg). Whilst Naruto does scold Konohamaru for this, it may well be because he does it in front of Sakura. Naruto doesn’t want her to see this, as he needs her as a facade to hide his own homosexuality, and he may do this subconsciously if he himself has not been able to come to terms with his sexuality and relationship with Sasuke.
Likewise, Naruto’s interest in spying on Sakura may well be an effort to bolster his heterosexual image after being threatened (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/286/16/).
So that's what you get for taking the Sexy no Jutsu seriously... Obvioulsy he doesn't use that jutsu that often, since it's not that helpful. Mainly as a competition with Konohamaru and on rare occasions as a weapon, since not every character falls for it.
When he used it against Jiraya he mentions that adults are way to weak against it, and when Jiraya wanted him to stay that way, he's pissed of immediatly, for taking the joke too far.

Naruto scolding Konohamaru in Sakuras presence is just the same she did when he used the girl on girl version of th SnJ. But is it really possible for Naruto to scold someone, when he likes what he sees, the way it was there? That would make his whole competition a fake (not just this one) and all of his reactions concerning it. The truth is, he didn't have the self-controll to keep this act up, since he's still short-tempered at that time. Also I already mentioned that his interest for Sakura wasn't fake.

Quote:
Leading into the last issue, this also explains why he is frigid around Sai – someone who is seemingly comfortable with their own sexuality (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/286/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/286/15/), because he feels that the character is forcing him to confront his own feelings. Naruto may also be attracted to Sai – perhaps because he resembles Sasuke, and attempts to pass this off as contempt towards him (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/286/03/).
Sai being what? Ok, he does look gay with his outfit, but once again there's a better explanation for Narutos reaction towards him. Who would really like someone who does nothing but insult you and your friends. The penis-jokes were just one thing that pissed Naruto off and I don't need to mention that Sakura wasn't amused either.
The problem with Sai ends with that arc, making him an accepted member of Team Kakashi, without any reason that can be interpreteed as supporting the Naruto-is-gay-theory. And considering the possibility of Naruto being attracted to Sai is, once again, exageration.

In the end, there's no argument that really supports this theory. The possibility remains, though, since Kishi can always change his mind, but right now, it's not propable.
That's fine though, since romance isn't exactly the main genre of this series, it's more like a bonus. Gay characters in this genre are easily recognisable as such, like Leeron in TTGL. It's just not the right genre to read too much between the lines.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:20 PM   #253
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

+Cant believe even the Mods have been sucked into this topic since it was started. Seems everyone wants Naruto to be Gay. Dont U guys think ur offending all the gay people on this forum?
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:26 PM   #254
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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+Cant believe even the Mods have been sucked into this topic since it was started. Seems everyone wants Naruto to be Gay. Dont U guys think ur offending all the gay people on this forum?
Yeah, if I was gay, I'd be offended, actually. Who would want to be anything like Naruto?
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:27 PM   #255
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

why would kishi bother writing "those" stuff into his manga (accidental kiss) if he doesn't want to imply something? there's no such thing as an accident in writing. he planned everything out from the beginning. every event he wrote into the comic was supposed to send out an idea. that's how i see it...

majority of yaoi/ bishounen books use the accident premise to create tension between their two straight male characters.

i don't like naruto to be gay, but if he is, it doesn't change anything much about it. we're in the 21st century now and there's no use keeping a closed mind. as far as i see it, kishi won't end this with naruto being gay. but him, having written it that way... his gay tendencies are showing through his works.
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