Naruto's Homosexuality - Page 39 - Fandom Forums
Fandom Forums



Go Back   Fandom Forums > Anime & Manga > Naruto Series > Naruto Manga

Naruto Manga Talk about the manga series Naruto here! Remember, this is manga only. No anime!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2010, 11:23 PM   #571
Miburo
Deos Fortioribus Adesse
 
Miburo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 3,546
Thanks: 34,399
Thanked 17,679 Times in 5,440 Posts
Miburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayrra View Post
It think he's going to go with the third option that you left out, though. And that would be that he disagrees with you, but only in the stance that the chance of Naruto being homosexual is not equal to the chance that Naruto is heterosexual. So not that he is definitely straight, just that it is more probable. And he'll try to prove that.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I assume he's going to keep fighting, because he seems like the spiteful type and I was egging him on there. But what you're describing isn't a third option, it's the second option I listed. I'll explain in the next part as to why.

Quote:
Not necessarily true. Think about the God debate, it's the same concept here. There's no definitive proof that God exists and none that he doesn't, yet you can still take a stance on it because it would be more logical. So there's no need to show that he is definitely gay or straight, to take a stance, but rather whether it is more logical based on deductive/inductive reasoning. Or there's always proof via contradiction, that's actually my favorite type. <3
It doesn't work that way in this scenario. In the God debate, one side is claiming existence. The default before any claim is non-existence. So non-existence is the more probable and logical stance until claim of existence is sufficiently established via credible proof.

In the discussion on sexuality, there really isn't a default stance when it comes to a single individual. It's not like you're straight until proven gay. And it's not like the odds of Naruto being gay are so astronomically small that they only exist because of the philosophical concept of inherent doubt found in all of knowledge. Unless someone discloses their sexual orientation, either by openly stating it or definitively showing it somehow, then all possible orientations are equally probable.

I really wasn't trying to be a dick to the dude when I listed those options. I really do already know how it would end should he choose to continue, or choose the option you're suggesting. He will fail in proving his point. And I think we've debated enough for you to know I'm not really the foolishly arrogant type. If I'm confident about something, it's because I have a good reason to be. There isn't nearly enough evidence available to support an opposing stance. Dude really should just go with option A, and end it with a respectful disagreement.

And did you just heart at me? You know I don't own a fursuit. = /
Miburo is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-02-2010, 08:06 AM   #572
Tankynator
Genin
 
Tankynator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 154
Thanks: 3
Thanked 36 Times in 12 Posts
Tankynator is on a distinguished road
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
What's your point? I never said it wasn't a work of fiction and whatnot. You were claiming to know the author's intentions while criticizing readers interpretations. Unless you are the author or have proof showing what his intentions definitively are, then you're just doing exactly what you're criticizing.
Ok, a few posts ago you asked me whether to use reality for this diskussion or stick to the fact that it's fiction. Obviously I stick to fictionality, so where exactly is your problem? When I say that romance is just a bonus, do you really disagree? Do I really need to proof such an obvious fact? Just compare the amount of real romantic scenes with the amount of battles.

Quote:
That's like asking for proof of someone's intent to kill when he points a loaded gun at someone's head and pulls the trigger. The fact that he transforms into a naked or near naked female and acts flirtatiously with dudes makes his intentions quite clear.
I asked for proof because it really was never stated that Naruto was using that jutsu only to arouse men. You already admitted that this wasn't his original intention so when did he do it to arouse men for his own amusement?

Chapter 1, Iruka? No, he wanted attention during class.
Chapter 1, Hokage? No, he wanted to distract him and it actually knocked him out.
Chapter 2, Ebisu? No, he was proving that he could defeat someone with that jutsu after Konohamaru failed.
Chapter 91, Jiraya? You have to be really stupid not to realise that this will work.

Quote:
I don't know how knowledgeable you are when it comes to debating, but if this was a formal debate between the two of us with professional judges then I'd be clearly kicking the shit out of you.
Now this is arrogance at it's best. Claiming to win a debate while refusing to give proof (or even an example) for something you consider obvious. Arguments need examples to work, so I suggest you start using them.

And yes, it would be nice to cease personnal attacks from now on, so I'll do my best to not attack you. But you're not making it easy for me.

Quote:
My stance is that Naruto might be gay/bi; which also means he might be straight. As of right now, there is no reason to assume either position, since he hasn't done anything that would definitively show he is either gay or straight.

So I'm operating under the assumption that you don't agree with me, since you're arguing with me. And that you are saying he's definitely straight, which would mean he's definitely not gay. You have to prove he's straight then. I'm saying he hasn't shown anything that would give any indication that he's definitely straight. I'm not saying that he's definitely gay. So this counter argument of yours is worthless, since I never said otherwise.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? Why are did you use provocations like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
...
Oh, and that Naruto is probably gay as fuck.
if you actually try to defend a fifty-fifty chance of him being either gay or straight?
Right now it looks like you changed your mind especially since I never claimed that there was no chance of him being gay. I always said that the cance of Naruto being gay is rather small and you should know that.

Quote:
Here are your options:

-Agree with me when I say it could be either or. Meaning I'm right, he could be gay. (You could say "Yes, you're correct Miburo. It is certainly possible that Naruto might be gay. Though, I personally don't think he is a homosexual.") This is the logical choice. And then I win. Woot, victory.
You win? How exactly is this your victory if my opinion hasn't changed compared to two month ago?

So with your presented options this debate was bouind to end up as a draw from the very beginning, since you actually didn't present a different opinion than me.

To me this discussion was about which case is more likely: Naruto being gay or straight.
My opinion has been clear from the beginning: He's most likely straight.

If you want to stick to Naruto most likely being gay you will have to present arguments that really support this point. It's not enough if a situation can be interpreted with Naruto being gay if him being straight gives a better (or equal) explanation.




Quote:
Yeah. You can lie to people while still caring about them and their well-being. I can elaborate and use an analogy for you or something if you really can't grasp such a simple concept, and would like me to further explain it to you. Just say the word, man.
Aren't you missing the point? Naruto had good reasons to turn Sakura down without being gay.
Tankynator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 09:50 AM   #573
Miburo
Deos Fortioribus Adesse
 
Miburo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 3,546
Thanks: 34,399
Thanked 17,679 Times in 5,440 Posts
Miburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
Ok, a few posts ago you asked me whether to use reality for this diskussion or stick to the fact that it's fiction. Obviously I stick to fictionality, so where exactly is your problem? When I say that romance is just a bonus, do you really disagree? Do I really need to proof such an obvious fact? Just compare the amount of real romantic scenes with the amount of battles.
Romance is a bonus? Okay, so what? What's your point? What does that prove in regards to Naruto's sexuality?

Quote:
I asked for proof because it really was never stated that Naruto was using that jutsu only to arouse men. You already admitted that this wasn't his original intention so when did he do it to arouse men for his own amusement?

Chapter 1, Iruka? No, he wanted attention during class.
Chapter 1, Hokage? No, he wanted to distract him and it actually knocked him out.
Chapter 2, Ebisu? No, he was proving that he could defeat someone with that jutsu after Konohamaru failed.
Chapter 91, Jiraya? You have to be really stupid not to realise that this will work.
Uh, seriously? You can't be serious, can you? You're not even refuting what I'm saying at all. The purpose of the technique is to arouse men. What he uses the technique to accomplish is a different matter. A stripper does a lap-dance to make money, but the purpose of a lap-dance is to arouse the customer. It's not really that hard of a concept to grasp.

Let's use a much more obvious example. You get into a school yard, non life or death, fight. Would you, as a heterosexual male, give a guy a handjob if you knew it would distract him and help you win? Yes or no.

Same logic applies here. Standard heterosexual male behavior doesn't involve using techniques that would sexually arouse men, for nearly any reason. Especially not just for shits and giggles during class, to distract someone, to prove a point, or to get something you want from some dude.

I really fail to see how this isn't sinking in for you.

Quote:
Now this is arrogance at it's best. Claiming to win a debate while refusing to give proof (or even an example) for something you consider obvious. Arguments need examples to work, so I suggest you start using them.
Alright, champ. Give me some examples of where I'm not providing any premises to support my argument. Oh wise debating sage.
Quote:
And yes, it would be nice to cease personnal attacks from now on, so I'll do my best to not attack you. But you're not making it easy for me.
Whatever. Doesn't matter to me, I was just calling you out for being such a baby douche about shit. You can keep it up if you want, I'll win a contest of who can be the bigger asshole any day of the week. ; )
Quote:
Aren't you contradicting yourself?
Nope.

Quote:
Why are did you use provocations like

if you actually try to defend a fifty-fifty chance of him being either gay or straight?
Right now it looks like you changed your mind especially since I never claimed that there was no chance of him being gay. I always said that the cance of Naruto being gay is rather small and you should know that.
If I flip a coin there is an equal chance of it being heads or tails. What? Hey, heads or tails? OH you picked heads? What, you don't think there is an equal chance it could be tails? LOLOLOL lyke look likes someone is contradicting themselves huurrrr.

See how completely stupid this argument of yours is yet? Just because I have an (valid) opinion doesn't mean I'm ignoring probabilities.

Quote:
You win? How exactly is this your victory if my opinion hasn't changed compared to two month ago?
Uh, because I was responding to some dumbshit that was going on about hormones and then you engaged me and attacked my stance. So either you attacked my stance without even understanding it, which makes you a moron. Or you attacked my stance despite the fact that you agree with it, which also makes you a moron. Or you changed your mind, which means I successfully proved my stance. If one of us was going to get his hand raised, it'd be me.

Quote:
So with your presented options this debate was bouind to end up as a draw from the very beginning, since you actually didn't present a different opinion than me.
It's not really a draw if you attack me personally, attack my stance, then say "Oh, I have the same stance as you lolololol I guess it's a tie lololool" It's more like you made yourself look like an ass for no reason.

Quote:
To me this discussion was about which case is more likely: Naruto being gay or straight.
My opinion has been clear from the beginning: He's most likely straight.
Okay. Prove that the actual probability of him being straight is greater than that of him being gay using logically credible evidence. Like I said earlier, good luck proving that.

My stance is that there is no way of definitively knowing whether he is gay or not, but if I was going to pick a stance it would be that he is gay. I can justify my stance logically, but I'm making no claims that my stance is more statistically probable than any other sexual orientation at this point in time.
Quote:
If you want to stick to Naruto most likely being gay you will have to present arguments that really support this point. It's not enough if a situation can be interpreted with Naruto being gay if him being straight gives a better (or equal) explanation.
I personally think Naruto is gay. And I have presented arguments that justify that stance. It's like picking heads or tails. I pick heads, and can justify it by pointing out that it's most definitely possible that a coin will land heads side up. And then I can show the probability using math. So I can present logical arguments to support my stance. Same thing applies here. I've justified my argument, as have others who share a similar view. I don't know why you keep saying "present arguments" all the damn time. It's like you're incapable of seeing what's plainly in front of your face. I've been doing that this entire time.


Quote:

Aren't you missing the point? Naruto had good reasons to turn Sakura down without being gay.
Oh, was that the point you were trying to make? Well, that's kinda stupid. Because all I was saying is that turning down chicks you supposedly really like certainly isn't proof of being straight. Not that it makes him a total fag.
Miburo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:22 AM   #574
Tankynator
Genin
 
Tankynator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 154
Thanks: 3
Thanked 36 Times in 12 Posts
Tankynator is on a distinguished road
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
If I flip a coin there is an equal chance of it being heads or tails. What? Hey, heads or tails? OH you picked heads? What, you don't think there is an equal chance it could be tails? LOLOLOL lyke look likes someone is contradicting themselves huurrrr.

See how completely stupid this argument of yours is yet? Just because I have an (valid) opinion doesn't mean I'm ignoring probabilities.
Did you really compare the chance of an individual being homo/hetero with the flip of a coin? If you flip a coin many times, e.g. 6.800.000.000 times, then you will have about equal amounts of heads and tails. So if half of humanity were homosexual, why have they ever been considered a minority?
The amount of homosexual humans seem to be far below 50%, at about 20% at best (at least that's what I found on wiki). You're not flipping a coin, you're rolling a 10-sided dice trying to throw a 9 or 10. Just because there are two alternatives doesn't mean that they are equally likely to happen.
Tankynator is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tankynator For This Useful Post:
superninja (02-02-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 11:34 AM   #575
Hitomare Urufu
Genin
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gone.
Posts: 67
Thanks: 15
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Hitomare Urufu is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Has anyone suggested that people look at Chapter 347 pages 10-11? I suggest you see what Naruto has to say about this sort of stuff. Bottom right on p.10. And top left on p.11.

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.p...ruto&c=347&p=9

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.p...uto&c=347&p=10
__________________
If you don't feel like standing behind your troops feel free to stand infront of them.
Notice the different positions of Sakura and Hinata's hands on Naruto's shoulder, Sakura's is more of a friendly position while hinata's is more of a GF's possesive position IMHO

I found this helpful maybe you will to
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5496615/1/My_Naruhina_rant

Last edited by Hitomare Urufu; 02-02-2010 at 11:36 AM.
Hitomare Urufu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hitomare Urufu For This Useful Post:
Ero-Sage (02-02-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 04:05 PM   #576
Scientia
Francesca
 
Scientia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 313
Thanks: 1,060
Thanked 207 Times in 126 Posts
Scientia is on a distinguished roadScientia is on a distinguished road
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
In the discussion on sexuality, there really isn't a default stance when it comes to a single individual. It's not like you're straight until proven gay. And it's not like the odds of Naruto being gay are so astronomically small that they only exist because of the philosophical concept of inherent doubt found in all of knowledge. Unless someone discloses their sexual orientation, either by openly stating it or definitively showing it somehow, then all possible orientations are equally probable.
Okay, so the analogy was flawed, I get that. But, no, the odds are not equally as probable. You do not need definitive proof to show that someone either being straight or gay is a more logical stance to take. That was my main point. You said it yourself on a thread a while ago, if you see two men holding hands together in a shop, there's nothing wrong with assuming they are gay, because said assumption is more logical. And because it is more logical it is more probable. Them holding hands isn't definitive proof, after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
And did you just heart at me? You know I don't own a fursuit. = /
No, it was a heart signifying my love for proof by contradiction. Though, you know, the only three things I truly love are Boxxy, Gantz, and Berserk. =/

Oh, and the only reason I would ever heart at you is because you're intelligent. Just for future reference.
__________________

Last edited by Scientia; 02-02-2010 at 04:09 PM.
Scientia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 04:36 PM   #577
arctic_knight
Academy Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts
arctic_knight is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitomare Urufu View Post
Has anyone suggested that people look at Chapter 347 pages 10-11? I suggest you see what Naruto has to say about this sort of stuff. Bottom right on p.10. And top left on p.11.

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.p...ruto&c=347&p=9

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.p...uto&c=347&p=10
well ya he's jealous that he did it of Sasuke and Sai and not Sasuke and him
arctic_knight is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to arctic_knight For This Useful Post:
Miburo (02-02-2010), Playa (02-02-2010), Servo (02-02-2010), Tzu Men (02-02-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 05:34 PM   #578
Miburo
Deos Fortioribus Adesse
 
Miburo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 3,546
Thanks: 34,399
Thanked 17,679 Times in 5,440 Posts
Miburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
Did you really compare the chance of an individual being homo/hetero with the flip of a coin? If you flip a coin many times, e.g. 6.800.000.000 times, then you will have about equal amounts of heads and tails. So if half of humanity were homosexual, why have they ever been considered a minority?
The amount of homosexual humans seem to be far below 50%, at about 20% at best (at least that's what I found on wiki). You're not flipping a coin, you're rolling a 10-sided dice trying to throw a 9 or 10. Just because there are two alternatives doesn't mean that they are equally likely to happen.
I'm actually well aware that homosexuals are a minority in our society. And I figured you'd try saying something like that, which is why I worded it the way I did. I'm talking about a single individual looked at in a vacuum, which is the most logical way to view it since we lack any sort of sexual orientation distribution statistics for Naruto's world. Any one person could be gay or straight. It's not seven billion coin flips, it's just one. That was the purpose of the analogy.

Furthermore, if you're going to try to argue the statistical probability of being gay based on estimated population sampling, then I hope you're going to show some stats on Naruto's universe in regards to population and sexual orientation distribution. I don't mind people assuming physics and whatnot operate like they do in the real world, since nothing is ever been shown otherwise. But it's clearly been shown that the story of Naruto takes place on a vastly different world than that of planet earth. With different countries, customs, population, etc.

And, although I hesitate to bring this up since it could be more fun to let you do it first and then mock you for it, there has been very few shown relationships in Naruto, and all take place in a pretty small portion of Naruto's world. So if you try using those as a sample to base statistics on, then that'd be pretty stupid. Considering the poor distribution and number of the sample group you'd be using.

Nice try though, I suppose. Thanks for narrowing your argument to one poorly constructed, easily countered point while ignoring the rest of my previous post. Made shit easy as all fuck for me. = )
Miburo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Miburo For This Useful Post:
Playa (02-02-2010), Servo (02-02-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 05:41 PM   #579
Jaxon
CHEEKI BREEKI
 
Jaxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,393
Thanks: 3,584
Thanked 12,473 Times in 3,664 Posts
Jaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to behold
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
Did you really compare the chance of an individual being homo/hetero with the flip of a coin? If you flip a coin many times, e.g. 6.800.000.000 times, then you will have about equal amounts of heads and tails. So if half of humanity were homosexual, why have they ever been considered a minority?
The amount of homosexual humans seem to be far below 50%, at about 20% at best (at least that's what I found on wiki). You're not flipping a coin, you're rolling a 10-sided dice trying to throw a 9 or 10. Just because there are two alternatives doesn't mean that they are equally likely to happen.


This image macro is as relevant to this thread as about 60% of the posts here.
Jaxon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Jaxon For This Useful Post:
ask me anything (02-02-2010), Mal (02-04-2010), Miburo (02-02-2010), Playa (02-02-2010), Servo (02-02-2010), Tabris (02-02-2010), Tzu Men (02-02-2010), zer0systm (02-03-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 06:41 PM   #580
AOTKorby
Leaf on the Wind
 
AOTKorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Denison U, Ohio
Posts: 4,137
Thanks: 539
Thanked 5,583 Times in 2,262 Posts
AOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the rough
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I'm actually well aware that homosexuals are a minority in our society. And I figured you'd try saying something like that, which is why I worded it the way I did. I'm talking about a single individual looked at in a vacuum, which is the most logical way to view it since we lack any sort of sexual orientation distribution statistics for Naruto's world. Any one person could be gay or straight. It's not seven billion coin flips, it's just one. That was the purpose of the analogy.

Furthermore, if you're going to try to argue the statistical probability of being gay based on estimated population sampling, then I hope you're going to show some stats on Naruto's universe in regards to population and sexual orientation distribution. I don't mind people assuming physics and whatnot operate like they do in the real world, since nothing is ever been shown otherwise. But it's clearly been shown that the story of Naruto takes place on a vastly different world than that of planet earth. With different countries, customs, population, etc.

And, although I hesitate to bring this up since it could be more fun to let you do it first and then mock you for it, there has been very few shown relationships in Naruto, and all take place in a pretty small portion of Naruto's world. So if you try using those as a sample to base statistics on, then that'd be pretty stupid. Considering the poor distribution and number of the sample group you'd be using.

Nice try though, I suppose. Thanks for narrowing your argument to one poorly constructed, easily countered point while ignoring the rest of my previous post. Made shit easy as all fuck for me. = )
Your sheer overconfidence and boastfulness when you have no stronger an argument than the other side is astounding. Must come from having the ability to end any argument you want with the click of a button.

You constantly claim that the counterpoint is 'assuming' that certain things show evidence of Naruto being straight, but what have you honestly done this whole time except look at things happening and finding the one way you can interpret it that makes him look gay?

You say that you win if the other side acknowledges the possibility, but guess what? Most of us HAVE. We're not arguing that he CAN'T be gay, we're arguing that he's MOST LIKELY straight. You're basically trying to argue that only your 'evidence' (if it even deserves such a title) is valid, with the counterpoint's 'evidence' (still not completely factual, but looking at things from a normal, 'don't assume everything is gay subtext', mostly logical stance) being lies or misinterpretations.

And for not going for ad hominem, your self-righteousness, what have you been DOING the last page if not actively insulting people and/or their opinions? You claim that you're veritably superior to everyone else arguing just because you refuse to acknowledge any interpretation of facts other than your own, and are perfectly willing to be a complete douche in order to enact a classic "I made you sick of arguing by being a douche, therefore I win the argument."
__________________
Quote:
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
AOTKorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 06:49 PM   #581
Jaxon
CHEEKI BREEKI
 
Jaxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,393
Thanks: 3,584
Thanked 12,473 Times in 3,664 Posts
Jaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to behold
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenninKorby View Post
Your sheer overconfidence and boastfulness when you have no stronger an argument than the other side is astounding. Must come from having the ability to end any argument you want with the click of a button.
Miburo has never closed a genuine debate.

Quote:
You constantly claim that the counterpoint is 'assuming' that certain things show evidence of Naruto being straight, but what have you honestly done this whole time except look at things happening and finding the one way you can interpret it that makes him look gay?
And you're looking at things happening and formulating an argument that makes Naruto look defiantely heterosexual. It's called formulating an argument, genius.

Quote:
You say that you win if the other side acknowledges the possibility, but guess what? Most of us HAVE. We're not arguing that he CAN'T be gay, we're arguing that he's MOST LIKELY straight. You're basically trying to argue that only your 'evidence' (if it even deserves such a title) is valid, with the counterpoint's 'evidence' (still not completely factual, but looking at things from a normal, 'don't assume everything is gay subtext', mostly logical stance) being lies or misinterpretations.
Then you have, by definition, lost. You wouldn't be arguing here if you had reached a satisfying overview. Since this is a manga, the choice of revelation when it comes to Naruto's sexuality is the decision of the author. This is from the thought process "Is Naruto gay; Y/N". This is a 50/50 decision. There is no "MOST LIKELY" option. Naruto is not real. Since you have admitted there is a possibility, the option is there, and therefore that thought process exists. End.

Quote:
And for not going for ad hominem, your self-righteousness, what have you been DOING the last page if not actively insulting people and/or their opinions? You claim that you're veritably superior to everyone else arguing just because you refuse to acknowledge any interpretation of facts other than your own, and are perfectly willing to be a complete douche in order to enact a classic "I made you sick of arguing by being a douche, therefore I win the argument."
Oh, hey, a paragraph that doesn't contribute to the debate, and whines in a butthurt little voice while calling Miburo a douche, repeatedly. Hey, at least you fit in great with the rest of the Naruto section!
Jaxon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jaxon For This Useful Post:
Miburo (02-02-2010), Playa (02-02-2010), Servo (02-02-2010), Tabris (02-03-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 07:10 PM   #582
AOTKorby
Leaf on the Wind
 
AOTKorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Denison U, Ohio
Posts: 4,137
Thanks: 539
Thanked 5,583 Times in 2,262 Posts
AOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the roughAOTKorby is a jewel in the rough
Unhappy Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon View Post
Miburo has never closed a genuine debate.

And your point? Having that kind of power goes to your head.

And you're looking at things happening and formulating an argument that makes Naruto look defiantely heterosexual. It's called formulating an argument, genius.

Except that he's basically basing his entire argument on ignoring one side's evidence, or specifically interpreting things to fit his argument when they honestly have no indication of such things being the reality.

Then you have, by definition, lost. You wouldn't be arguing here if you had reached a satisfying overview. Since this is a manga, the choice of revelation when it comes to Naruto's sexuality is the decision of the author. This is from the thought process "Is Naruto gay; Y/N". This is a 50/50 decision. There is no "MOST LIKELY" option. Naruto is not real. Since you have admitted there is a possibility, the option is there, and therefore that thought process exists. End.

For one, the original point of the thread was to 'prove' that Naruto was MOST LIKELY gay. Arguing that he MOST LIKELY isn't is completely valid. And 'Is Naruto Gay, Y/N?' is not a 50/50 decision as the note on the probability of a person being gay. The ratio of homosexual to heterosexual sure as heck isn't 50/50, so the 'Yes/No' question is not a 50/50. One side should clearly be more likely than the other due to simple statistics, and Naruto has displayed at least equal evidence that he is straight as he has that he is gay.

Oh, hey, a paragraph that doesn't contribute to the debate, and whines in a butthurt little voice while calling Miburo a douche, repeatedly. Hey, at least you fit in great with the rest of the Naruto section!

So wait, you think by doing exactly what that paragraph pointed out is a completely invalid debate tactic makes you win this argument? Dumbass. Go read up on logic fallacies sometime, Ad Hominem is one of them.
I hope you don't get involved again.
__________________
Quote:
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
AOTKorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 07:33 PM   #583
Tankynator
Genin
 
Tankynator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 154
Thanks: 3
Thanked 36 Times in 12 Posts
Tankynator is on a distinguished road
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I'm actually well aware that homosexuals are a minority in our society. And I figured you'd try saying something like that, which is why I worded it the way I did. I'm talking about a single individual looked at in a vacuum, which is the most logical way to view it since we lack any sort of sexual orientation distribution statistics for Naruto's world. Any one person could be gay or straight. It's not seven billion coin flips, it's just one. That was the purpose of the analogy.

Furthermore, if you're going to try to argue the statistical probability of being gay based on estimated population sampling, then I hope you're going to show some stats on Naruto's universe in regards to population and sexual orientation distribution. I don't mind people assuming physics and whatnot operate like they do in the real world, since nothing is ever been shown otherwise. But it's clearly been shown that the story of Naruto takes place on a vastly different world than that of planet earth. With different countries, customs, population, etc.

And, although I hesitate to bring this up since it could be more fun to let you do it first and then mock you for it, there has been very few shown relationships in Naruto, and all take place in a pretty small portion of Naruto's world. So if you try using those as a sample to base statistics on, then that'd be pretty stupid. Considering the poor distribution and number of the sample group you'd be using.

Nice try though, I suppose. Thanks for narrowing your argument to one poorly constructed, easily countered point while ignoring the rest of my previous post. Made shit easy as all fuck for me. = )
And what makes you assume that there IS a 50% chance of being homosexual given the fact that we've encountered no proven gay character? Your main point doesn't work out, since it's not a coin flip if there's no basic 50% chance of a character being homosexual.

Regarding the rest of your post, why should I repeat myself? You've ignoring and misunderstanding my arguments and arrived at the point where I would have to repeat myself to explain it. You compare a joke to a handjob and expect me to take you seriously? I already explained what the sexy no jutsu is: a joke for the audience, based on the mythology Narutos character is based on. It's stupid to take an obvious joke literally.
And turning a girl down because you know she actually loves someone else doesn't make you gay either...
Tankynator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 07:50 PM   #584
Jaxon
CHEEKI BREEKI
 
Jaxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,393
Thanks: 3,584
Thanked 12,473 Times in 3,664 Posts
Jaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to beholdJaxon is a splendid one to behold
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
And your point? Having that kind of power goes to your head.
Wow, thanks GI Joe. I sure love hearing your moral observations after every show.

Quote:
Except that he's basically basing his entire argument on ignoring one side's evidence, or specifically interpreting things to fit his argument when they honestly have no indication of such things being the reality.
Ah, no, the other side's evidence has been adressed multiple times. He's not ignored the evidence, he's simply stated a preference for the stated evidence to the contrary. As you have. It's called taking a side. The point is there is no "reality", since Naruto's sexual preference has not been explicitly stated. This is all speculation, on both sides.

Quote:
For one, the original point of the thread was to 'prove' that Naruto was MOST LIKELY gay. Arguing that he MOST LIKELY isn't is completely valid.
No, the point of the OP was to present a point for debate. That is the point of a thread, of a discussion on a forum. Otherwise it would be on the Internet in the form of a comment-locked blog post, say.

Quote:
And 'Is Naruto Gay, Y/N?' is not a 50/50 decision as the note on the probability of a person being gay. The ratio of homosexual to heterosexual sure as heck isn't 50/50, so the 'Yes/No' question is not a 50/50. One side should clearly be more likely than the other due to simple statistics, and Naruto has displayed at least equal evidence that he is straight as he has that he is gay.
Oh my God. You're not seriously debating on the statistics of homosexual percentages in the real world? This all hinges around the fact you're debating this as if Naruto was a real person, in the real world. He is not. He is a character with pre-defined actions and lines. For a start, my point is that this kind of logic is moot. And even if it wasn't, who are you to say 50% of the population in the Naruto universe are not gay? It's not been touched upon at all. For all you know, half the fire country could be complete flamers. The world of Naruto is barely explored at all, what with all the chakra-fuelled dickslapping that makes up an average chapter.

My point is, you have acknowledged there is a chance Naruto is gay. So there are two ways he can be presented by Kishimoto at this point. Straight, or Gay. Or hell, let's add in Bisexual too. What happens in the manga is literally what he writes, so for whatever crazy reasons are in the man's head, he could go for any of the three. So the chance for each is 3.33 rec. You could say that you could judge from the precedent of what's come before, but shit, you have no idea what's in that guy's head. He might suddenly declare that Naruto is gay for the Third Hokage, and he mourns for his lust-object's death. He's done stupider shit in this crappy manga. You guys would still read it, right? Hell, Konohamaru's successfully performed the rasengan on an S-rank ninja.

Quote:
So wait, you think by doing exactly what that paragraph pointed out is a completely invalid debate tactic makes you win this argument? Dumbass. Go read up on logic fallacies sometime, Ad Hominem is one of them.
Nice of you to miss the irony of me adressing your paragraph-long whinefest with a two line response. Cry some more, yo.
Jaxon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jaxon For This Useful Post:
Miburo (02-02-2010), Playa (02-02-2010)
Old 02-02-2010, 08:39 PM   #585
Miburo
Deos Fortioribus Adesse
 
Miburo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 3,546
Thanks: 34,399
Thanked 17,679 Times in 5,440 Posts
Miburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond reputeMiburo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenninKorby View Post
Your sheer overconfidence and boastfulness when you have no stronger an argument than the other side is astounding. Must come from having the ability to end any argument you want with the click of a button.

You constantly claim that the counterpoint is 'assuming' that certain things show evidence of Naruto being straight, but what have you honestly done this whole time except look at things happening and finding the one way you can interpret it that makes him look gay?

You say that you win if the other side acknowledges the possibility, but guess what? Most of us HAVE. We're not arguing that he CAN'T be gay, we're arguing that he's MOST LIKELY straight. You're basically trying to argue that only your 'evidence' (if it even deserves such a title) is valid, with the counterpoint's 'evidence' (still not completely factual, but looking at things from a normal, 'don't assume everything is gay subtext', mostly logical stance) being lies or misinterpretations.

And for not going for ad hominem, your self-righteousness, what have you been DOING the last page if not actively insulting people and/or their opinions? You claim that you're veritably superior to everyone else arguing just because you refuse to acknowledge any interpretation of facts other than your own, and are perfectly willing to be a complete douche in order to enact a classic "I made you sick of arguing by being a douche, therefore I win the argument."
Kind of funny you're saying I pretty much suck at debating, yet no where in this massive whine-fest post of yours did you once point out a specific logical fallacy of mine or counter any of my arguments.

Also, cry more, kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankynator View Post
And what makes you assume that there IS a 50% chance of being homosexual given the fact that we've encountered no proven gay character? Your main point doesn't work out, since it's not a coin flip if there's no basic 50% chance of a character being homosexual.

Regarding the rest of your post, why should I repeat myself? You've ignoring and misunderstanding my arguments and arrived at the point where I would have to repeat myself to explain it. You compare a joke to a handjob and expect me to take you seriously? I already explained what the sexy no jutsu is: a joke for the audience, based on the mythology Narutos character is based on. It's stupid to take an obvious joke literally.
And turning a girl down because you know she actually loves someone else doesn't make you gay either...
You do understand the concept of an analogy, right? I'm saying there is an equal chance of Naruto being gay or straight. Like Jaxon pointed out, he could be bisexual or have no sexual preference at all (since he's a goddamn cartoon.). Just like there is an equal chance of a coin flip being heads or tails. Not that it's necessarily 50%.

And I'm fairly sure there has been at least one instance of male on male action shown in the manga, when that little kid did that one jutsu. Which suggests homosexuality exists in the Naruto universe.

I assume that counter-argument addresses your argument. Since an argument consisting of some sort of statistical comparison between homosexual characters shown to heterosexual characters shown to show that there is a disproportion would be extremely, extremely retarded considering the really small sample size involved. So I'm being nice and giving you the benefit of the doubt by not assuming you're actually stupid enough to suggest such a thing. You're welcome.

And you still haven't addressed the point I was making with the technique that sexually arouses men. Saying it's a joke doesn't make it any less of a non-typical heterosexual male behavior. Crying about my analogies because you don't get the point of them doesn't make my argument invalid. But it's okay, I understand you not wanting to dig an even bigger ditch for yourself.


Also, Jaxon <3
Miburo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Miburo For This Useful Post:
Playa (02-02-2010)
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
naruto's fate Grimmjow Naruto Manga 30 02-15-2010 07:16 PM
Naruto's Parents Naruto Uzumaki 12 Hall of Fail 6 01-11-2008 05:23 PM
Naruto's Key to Power The Special One Naruto Manga 14 12-18-2007 04:06 PM
Naruto's new jutsu: Adding wind element to rasengan. <DaNTe> Naruto Manga 94 09-19-2006 04:56 PM
Do you think that the forth Hokage is Naruto's Father? Black_Kyuubi Naruto Anime 94 02-10-2005 08:11 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.