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Old 06-19-2010, 03:08 AM   #811
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
Christians = people who follow Christ.(corrected) If Christianity is a dumbass religion full of ridiculous bullshit then aren't you saying the same of people who choose to believe in it? And if not then why is it ok for YOU to separate the two and not ok for ME to separate a homosexual person from their sinful sexual acts? I don't hate homosexual people. Just the sinful acts they choose to commit and the fact that they're ramming everyones face with justifications for it. Prolly a lot like the way organized religion treats you. Wow that last sentence goes pretty deep.................................... .......................................A fter some reflection I empathize with how you feel a lot better now. Hope you can see the similarities that illuminates.

I can see how Christians come off as judgemental bigots. Yet they want to be respected. Unfortunately, these are the unwanted poster children for Christianity. Its a big turnoff. Our faith makes us unrelenting to sin. However a good Christian will still care about you, Tsuna, the person, while shunning your acts. I've done a bad job at extending that courtesy to you and others on this forum. I truly apologize for that. I kind of busted into this thread with guns a blazin like yosemite sam or something. I'll make a better effort in that area.

Can you see how homosexuals can come off in negative ways? Have you seen or been to a gay pride parade lately? Its literally a perverted sexual circus coming down the street. Yet they want to be respected. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on the public displays of profanity that happens at them. Unfortunately, these are the unwanted poster children for homosexuals. I'm not bashing either. Even if straight couples came down the street acting and dressing in such profane ways I would have a problem with it. Its perversion in the extreme and I'm not just talking about nudity. I could car less about that.

In the end both groups are misunderstood. We may be at opposite ends of the spectrum, and disagree about each others beliefs but we have a lot in common as far as the mechanism we employ to perceive each other.
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I admit that maybe it's not exactly the most logical thing to separate a religion full of bullshit from the people that follow it. And at one point in my life, I didn't separate the two. In my mind, religion was dumbfuckery and so were the people that were idiotic enough to be sucked into believing it. But after the death of my grandmother, I came to accept the fact that some people need to have that reassurance that there is life after death, that there is salvation to be had, etc etc etc. I've come to accept the fact that though religion might be something I find a load of cockshit, to someone else, it might be the only thing keeping them from drowning.

My reasons for separating religion from its followers, as you can plainly see, is a bunch of melodramatic bullshit that has a hell of a lot more to do with my own personal experience with the people around me than actual cold, hard logic. In light of that, I will admit to being "wrong" in said separation, when logically the two should be intergrated.

And as you said, you don't hate homosexuals themselves, but the "sinful acts" they commit. Who decided that it was sinful? Just because we fall in love with people of the same sex, that means we're sinning? We're sinning, because we aren't attracted to the opposite sex? That doesn't make sense and you know it.

We homosexuals never "rammed" our sexuality into anyone's faces before you Christians started shoving your religions down our throats. And when was the last time you heard of a hate crime from a homosexual against a Christian? Homosexuals are beaten and killed by the very same people you call your Christian brothers, and you say we're the ones ramming justifications in people's faces? Well, at least we aren't the ones killing for it.

But then again, that's how it's always been with religious types, hasn't it?

This is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard or seen. I've had Christians say that shit to me before. "Yes, we care about you... just change who you are first." Yeah, you'll "care" about the so-called "normal" side of me, while you degrade and despise me for facts about myself that I cannot change.

And yes, I have been to a gay pride festival. I went to an LGBTQ Youth Summit at the University of Cincinnati three years in a row, and never ONCE was anything about it sexual.

Do you know what the main focus of that summit was, every time I went?

Acceptance.

And that's something we will never, ever have, because of people like you.

WOW....just WOW!!! What a load of ridiculous generalities. You are clearly one jaded chica. Talk about irrational hate....That was a pretty big fig leaf you just trampled on.

The is no difference in the hateful words coming from you compared to the hateful shit I was saying when I busted into this thread a couple of pages ago. In case you haven't noticed I've stopped all the hate speech. Yes humility is a good thing and some of you have made good points about the words I chose and the mindless hate I was dishing out so I'm making an effort to be open minded and meet people in the middle. I've apologized and accepted responsibility for my insensitivities. People do learn from mistakes you know. Then there's the rest of you, attack, attack, attack....hate hate hate. Its clear the only hate still going on here is against me and my Christian values. Talk about hypocrites.

Tsuna, If homosexuality isn't sinful to you then why bother with the hate your spewing. Obviously you have emotions to reconcile with your life choices. If you're gay and proud then feel gay and proud. Why do you need a Christians validation or "acceptance"? Or anybodies for that matter? I certainly don't need your validation. If I believe homosexual acts are sinful then to ME they are. If you believe they are not then to YOU they shouldn't be. Simple as that.

If we're friends and one day I tell you I like to wipe my ass bare handed are you gonna stop shaking my hand? Prolly. What if I assure you that I wash my hands thoroughly and they're clean. You still wont shake my hand cause the thought of shaking a hand that was once full of shit isn't appealing to you. Should I stop wiping bare handed cuz you don't like it? No. Are you gonna stop being my friend cause you don't agree with my personal habits? Or are we gonna be friends but leave the hand shaking out of it? Thats the extent of my feelings about homosexuality. Do what you want but don't force me to shake your hand. I can still be your friend without shaking your hand.

Do you really think gays are only bashed and beaten up on by Christians or "religious" people? I know a lot regular non-religious people that are not tolerant of homosexuals and I live in friggin Long Beach, CA. Its like San Francisco part 2. Don't go throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm now convinced you're completely incapable of giving out the "acceptance" you want so desperately from others. Talk about hate. Your LGBT summit didn't teach you anything. Hater.

Last edited by Ero-Sage; 06-19-2010 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:16 AM   #812
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
1. Obviously it didn't sink in. Also you say you don't have a problem with religious people and in the same paragraph refer to religious people believing in "stupid fairytales" priceless.
No shit, because I'm not a toolbag.

And yeah, I have no problem with religious people. I don't respect their stupid beliefs though. My grandpa is a christian. I like my grandpa, he looks exactly like Old Snake. I still think his religion is stupid. It's a pretty easy thing to understand, yo. Even someone like you should be able to get this shit.


Quote:
Leading people astray and accepting sin as normal behavior degrades society by destroying its morals. Thus harming people. It makes the difference between right and wrong relative instead of absolute. Its natural for people to want the world to be shades of grey cause it relieves them of guilt and accountibility. I believe in things being black and white and people being responsible for their decisions and actions. Not justifying them thus causing a slippery slope of morality which is exactly what is happening.
Again, present a logical argument showing how homosexuality destroys 'society's morals.' If you can't, then your argument lacks merit and no one should take it seriously. Again, pretty simple shit.

Protip: Your religion, which you admit is illogical, saying it's bad doesn't count as a valid argument.







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Old 06-19-2010, 03:20 AM   #813
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage
The is no difference in the hateful words coming from you compared to the hateful shit I was saying when I busted into this thread a couple of pages ago.
Excuse me if being declared as a sinful being makes me a little angry. Yes, I was hateful. But you pissed me the fuck off. I'm not always the most civil person when I'm angry. So sorry about the butthurt, dude.
Quote:
Tsuna, If homosexuality isn't sinful to you then why bother with the hate your spewing. Obviously you have emotions to reconcile with your life choices. If you're gay and proud then feel gay and proud. Why do you need a Christians validation or "acceptance"?
Um, I don't. But I also don't need your hate, your prejudice, your claims that I'll burn in the fiery pits of hell for all of eternity, either. You're very good at picking and choosing what you want to see in my posts.
Quote:
Do you really think gays are only bashed and beaten up on by Christians or "religious" people? I know a lot regular non-religious people that are not tolerant of homosexuals. Don't go throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
The debate wasn't about other people. It was sparked by Christian and religious views about homosexuals and homosexuality. I didn't think it was necessary to address the nameless other individuals who are against homosexuals because it wasn't relevant to the argument.

If it bothers you that much that I didn't address the countless homophobes that aren't expressly Christian, here: Out of the dozen or so boys who beat me and my friend into the dirt, I expect a few of them probably weren't churchgoers.
Quote:
I'm now convinced you're completely incapable of giving out the "acceptance" you want so desperately from others. Talk about hate. Your LGBT summit didn't teach you anything. Hater.
I'm sorry that I can't accept the fact that a certain people are condemned to hell because of who they are. I will admit that I am completely, utterly incapable of accepting that. If that makes me a bad person, a "hater", then so be it.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:43 AM   #814
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Slightly off topic of making fun of idiots. And I don't mean to pry or anything, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuna View Post
If it bothers you that much that I didn't address the countless homophobes that aren't expressly Christian, here: Out of the dozen or so boys who beat me and my friend into the dirt, I expect a few of them probably weren't churchgoers.
What the fuck. I mean, I know that the vast majority of dudes are huge babydicks. And I know I shouldn't underestimate just how much of dumbshit unmanly pussies those dudes can be. But holy shit. Dudes actually beat you up for liking chicks? And no other dudes ruined their shit or broke their faces?

Where was this? France? That's the only place I can think of that would be full of that many pansy fucks. Goddamn. RAGE.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:57 AM   #815
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Again, Cincinnati.

Their justification was probably along the lines of something like dyke = man.
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:10 AM   #816
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

I guess stupidity knows no bounds.
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:25 PM   #817
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Sorry for saying my piece so late on Christians and homosexuals, but only now I noticed Ero-Sage's posts. Prepare yourselves for a LAP.

I must say that every Christian that justifies homophobia with the Bible clearly hasn't read a line of it. I bothered to read the two testaments (even though I'm an atheist, it was a good read most of the time. Only some parts, like the psalms, were boring to read as watching paint in the wall dry) and Christians pretty much ignore Jesus' teachings and grab whatever lines they find appropriate and ignore the rest.

For starters, God. If some members think that Surf's Up! members are jerks, they don't know the Bible's God. He just fools around with people and does whatever he wants for giggles and shit. "Oh, you don't need to sacrifice your son, I'm just kidding!" or "Hey, son, no hards feelings if I get you killed, ok?" just to name the most famous examples of God's douchebaggery.

And his people on the Old Testament aren't better, either. Incest between father and daughter? Killing people if they don't share your beliefs? Killing your brother if he masturbates? Giving your virgin daughter to rapists to avoid getting yourself killed? Shitting on your whole family because God speaks to you and only you? This is all okay if you're truly Christian! But you're gay? You deserve death! *sigh* A lot of Christians say that the Old Testament shouldn't be used as example of Christianity, but that raises a question, why the hell is the Old Testament included in the modern Bible if Christians say to ignore it?

And Christians simply misunderstand the New Testament from the very first line to the last. Jesus' word is all about guidance and caring about the fellow human, no matter race, belief or life style. But, of course, Christians understand that as "only care about other Christians". And the most hypocritical misunderstanding of Jesus' teachings is when he brought the temple down because of the idols, he didn't do it to end all false idols and pagan imagery, he did it to end ANY idol and religious imagery. I'm pretty sure the churches don't have any of those thing... oh wait, they spent oceans of cash on them. The whole Vatican is one big middle finger on this teaching. And Christians, the Book of Revelation is just an allegory of the Roman Empire against the Christians, get that straight.

Sorry for the huge rant, but Gay Marriage was recently approved by Portuguese law and the Christian retards are getting annoying and I have to show their stupidity over and over again.
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:13 PM   #818
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

I'd just like to point out how much complete bullshit it is that people like you, Ero, have the honest intolerance to tell a homosexual person TO HER FACE that she's committing a sin by being who she is, yet have no problems praising liars and murderers because they're "eradicating sin" and "upholding the moral standard of America" by committing hate crimes against homosexuals.

Do not tell me that you think that what you're doing is in any way moral. Do not try to tell YOURSELF that you're "following the teachings of Jesus Christ" by discriminating against people who have done NOTHING to you.

EDIT: sorry if it seems like I just jumped in here, but when I last posted he had been in the "stupid, ignorant, stubborn Christian" camp, but from the posts since then, he's easily gone into the "abhorrent, intolerant, bible-thumping disgraces to Christ" category, to me. I will never understand how some people can know someone who is gay, who's of a different race, etc., have no problems with them as a human being, but still hold to their IDIOTIC BELIEF that they must be sinners because they're "different." Why the ignorant, intolerant, hateful messages that have been passed down through generations of such people can't be erased simply by personal experience is a question that the only adequate answer to is sheer stupidity.
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:11 AM   #819
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Hey,

Wow quite an interesting mix of genuine social debate here. I have to admit, my current views aside, I used to be your classic social conservative sort of Anglican Canadian guy. That meant of course a healthy sense of homophobia and intolerance as this was not part of the utopia I was believing in.

Part of growing up however is about re-assessing what you think and to see what you are actually supporting. Religion always justifies gross social injustice... if it's Shi'ites slaughtering Sunnis in some Iraqi rural area, or a bunch of heterosexual Christians beating on a homosexual woman. I like what Nietzsche was talking about when he said "God is Dead," (no it's not about atheism, don't bring that shit up) -- it's about a religion of man, man being his own focus of self-improvement (unless I glossed over that reading :P). Excluding a large section of the human populace because of a choice they did not make seems beyond illogical and frankly, inhuman.

While I still consider myself a traditional sort of guy in a lot of my views on society, I really think that people need to learn to grow up when it comes to sexual orientation... it does NOT matter. Sexual preference is not a choice, it's not learned. I like a certain type of women, I did not consciously select one. With all the terror some gays feel, if they could choose to be different they would ... it's not like alcoholism and should not be treated that way.

Also, if you can't see religion as a perfect way to manipulate the masses, you are a moron. Religions even play on that angle in regards to rivals (false prophets, etc etc.).
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:53 AM   #820
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Just so everyone knows, not all Christians are ignorant dicks.
I have nothing against gays and support gay marriage.
That is all.
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:07 PM   #821
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

^Thanks for the heads up, buddy.

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Originally Posted by Tsuna View Post
Again, Cincinnati.

Their justification was probably along the lines of something like dyke = man.
Haha, I wasn't really asking where there. That was more like one of those things where if someone was telling a story about how they're surrounded by balls-out idiots and I'd make a comment along the lines of "Jeez, where was this? The philippines?" It's more of an insult to the people he's referring to (comparing them to filthy, primitive mudhutters) kinda thing.

But yeah, that's ridiculously pussy shit. That's actually the kind of hardcore pussy shit that I'd seriously consider taking a roadtrip of justice for. Seriously.



Also, kinda surprised by the narutards being atheists and shit. I'd expect more pussy dumbshit agnostics at best. And as much as religions are stupid, the current topic of discussion is more on how a particular religious belief as portrayed by dumbshit Ero-sage is stupid. So talking about how dumb his religion in general is doesn't make for the best counter-argument.

I'll probably move all the posts about how stupid Ero-sage's beliefs are, and Ero-sages stupid posts, into their own thread and put that shit in the debate section a little later. Since this thread is about how Naruto probably wants to take it in the ass, after all.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:48 PM   #822
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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My point is, yes. Homosexuals can give off negative impressions, because of a few bad seeds.

Again, I say: pretty fucked up.
Dude. It's the same thing with Christianity. Just because some Christians do really wrong things and make the other Christians look shitty doesn't mean that we all are. I've been a Christian my whole life and plan on remaining that way for the rest of it, and I certainly have never thought or done those horrible things that you accuse Christians of doing. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but I'm not going to bash or complain about it, because it isn't my life that is affected by it.

I kind of understand where Ero is coming from. I don't think he intentionally meant to insult you, Tsuna, he just seemed to get a little ahead of himself while explaining his beliefs. Even though I don't agree with homosexuality, I don't plan on doing anything about it. I won't support it, and I wont bother going out to protest either. As a Christian, I think that Ero is trying to help you find the right path, but it is still totally your choice to accept God or not.

And just because you're lesbian doesn't mean anyone should treat you badly, you're just a normal person who just happens to prefer the same sex, right? Well it appears that way at least...I don't agree with you're choice either, but it isn't my life so I'm not going to say anything about it anymore.

But come on, guys. You may not care for Christianity (or any other religion for that matter), but please don't sit there and call it retarded. Just like how any other person has no right to bash on homosexuals, you have no right to bash on Christianity. You don't agree with it, that's fine. State your beliefs if you must, then be done. You have no reason to shit talk something you don't believe in, right? I kind of already know that everyone is just going to continue bashing and arguing, but I hope my comment was worth something...
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:59 PM   #823
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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But come on, guys. You may not care for Christianity (or any other religion for that matter), but please don't sit there and call it retarded. Just like how any other person has no right to bash on homosexuals, you have no right to bash on Christianity. You don't agree with it, that's fine. State your beliefs if you must, then be done. You have no reason to shit talk something you don't believe in, right? I kind of already know that everyone is just going to continue bashing and arguing, but I hope my comment was worth something...
But it is retarded. That's the difference between homosexuality and religion. You can't make a single logical argument showing homosexuality is wrong or stupid. Not a single one. Go ahead, try. One can easily make logical arguments against many facets of most religions. That's why it's completely fine and justifiable to criticize one but not the other.
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:00 PM   #824
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by 01purple View Post
Dude. It's the same thing with Christianity. Just because some Christians do really wrong things and make the other Christians look shitty doesn't mean that we all are. I've been a Christian my whole life and plan on remaining that way for the rest of it, and I certainly have never thought or done those horrible things that you accuse Christians of doing. I myself believe that homosexuality is wrong, but I'm not going to bash or complain about it, because it isn't my life that is affected by it.

I kind of understand where Ero is coming from. I don't think he intentionally meant to insult you, Tsuna, he just seemed to get a little ahead of himself while explaining his beliefs. Even though I don't agree with homosexuality, I don't plan on doing anything about it. I won't support it, and I wont bother going out to protest either. As a Christian, I think that Ero is trying to help you find the right path, but it is still totally your choice to accept God or not.

And just because you're lesbian doesn't mean anyone should treat you badly, you're just a normal person who just happens to prefer the same sex, right? Well it appears that way at least...I don't agree with you're choice either, but it isn't my life so I'm not going to say anything about it anymore.

But come on, guys. You may not care for Christianity (or any other religion for that matter), but please don't sit there and call it retarded. Just like how any other person has no right to bash on homosexuals, you have no right to bash on Christianity. You don't agree with it, that's fine. State your beliefs if you must, then be done. You have no reason to shit talk something you don't believe in, right? I kind of already know that everyone is just going to continue bashing and arguing, but I hope my comment was worth something...
The main flaw in the logic behind this is that Christianity has given PLENTY of people reason to hate it. Homosexuals have done nothing to provoke the discrimination brought down on them by people, and the SOLE REASON that this discrimination is ignored by the government is because of Ultra-Christian, 'traditional' Republicans who do everything in their power to prevent homosexuals from gaining any ground in their struggle for Civil Rights, just like the very same people fought against the Racial struggle and the campaign for Women's Rights.

I know plenty of people that are Christian who actually try to follow the messages given by the Bible. People who try to be kind to others for the sake of being kind, rather than only going to Church out of fear for Hell. People who respect others' rights, rather than using the Bible as justification for hatred and discrimination.

The reason that I, as an atheist/agnostic (I'm somewhere in the middle), dislike religion is because of the sheer hypocrisy and stupidity that many people who follow it exhibit. I have no problem with the messages of the Bible/Torah/Koran(yes I'm fully aware that this is not the actual spelling, the actual spelling has a Q somewhere), my disgust is geared toward those who follow none of its ACTUAL MESSAGES in favor of simply using their faith in God to justify honest crimes against humanity.
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:05 PM   #825
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by SenninKorby View Post
I, as an atheist/agnostic (I'm somewhere in the middle).
Quick yes or no question: Do you believe that a god exists?
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