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Old 11-27-2009, 01:51 AM   #16
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

Fresh- I wasn't educated publicly, least not through mid/high school. I was home schooled, with a very good tutor.

Actually, I even got around even being tutored for the state's mandatory 2 years of PE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
P.E. should definitely* be mandatory IMO. As its already been stated Exercise offers many benefits* including healthier Brain function that should help with learning so its win win.

Not trying to be Insensitive, but IMO high schoolers should fear Bullies not Gravity.
Aww you made a joke <3 HARRHARR UR MOMS PARTICLES ACCELERATE AT EXTREMELY HIGH RATES

Also, I'm not entirely sure what point that's making? How does being fat make you fear gravity?






















Edit: also, you spelled than wrong.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:05 AM   #17
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

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@Mibs- We are born ignorant. Not fat. I still think it's lifestyle choices that have to be addressed. I think the idea would be brilliant, but I've been in school where parents became snarling packs of morons because their children had to sit down and do homework for more than 10 minutes. I can't imagine how much they'd rage when their lardy 13 year old sniveled about being physically exerted. If they do accept it, people still need to first find what's causing the issue and address it. Looking to school for a solution [which would suck to see that happen]isn't going to fix crappy health decisions.

Also, it IS a teacher's job to raise excitement about learning and to educate. It's what they're paid to do. I'm all for it if we start paying people to make our children fit, but we currently are not [and I don't see it happening properly/at all due to the 'recession' and all the utterly ridiculous cuts that are taking place], and I still believe parents and conditioning needs to fix it before we push it upon educational system. It is and would be useful, but not for the reason addressed.
Your original argument was that the government shouldn't be responsible for teaching physical education. I was addressing that argument.

We're born ignorant. I'll agree with that. It's poor lifestyle choices? Sure. How are people, who are naturally ignorant, going to learn how to make better choices regarding physical fitness? Physical education sounds like that could do the trick, wouldn't you agree?

If you're saying people might bitch, so it's not good, then I disagree. People bitch about everything and anything. Doesn't matter.

And if you're taking issue with how physical education is addressed, then that's a separate issue. Proper physical education is still a beneficial thing for anyone to learn, just like any other academic class like math or english.

And like I said, parents could teach their kids to read and do math too. What do we need schools for at all if we apply that rationale to other academics?

Also, who is more qualified to teach their kids proper physical education? A certified teacher, or some parents who are likely making pretty shitty lifestyle choices themselves?

Know what I mean?

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Not trying to be Insensitive, but IMO high schoolers should fear Bullies not Gravity.
What.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:26 AM   #18
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

[out of order]

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
If you're saying people might bitch, so it's not good, then I disagree. People bitch about everything and anything. Doesn't matter.
That was more of a minor me rambling concern than it was a point against it. Mah bad

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
We're born ignorant. I'll agree with that. It's poor lifestyle choices? Sure. How are people, who are naturally ignorant, going to learn how to make better choices regarding physical fitness? Physical education sounds like that could do the trick, wouldn't you agree?
It would, however this v

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
And if you're taking issue with how physical education is addressed, then that's a separate issue. Proper physical education is still a beneficial thing for anyone to learn, just like any other academic class like math or english.
It's really my only issue with it at all. I know it'll be done as crappy as the rest of the sub-par education around here and cost more which will lead to cuts in other academics which will lead to more decline which... is not worth having a sliver of hope at having less fat people. Though it'd be fantastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Also, who is more qualified to teach their kids proper physical education? A certified teacher, or some parents who are likely making pretty shitty lifestyle choices themselves?
Know what I mean?[/QUOTE]

inowutumeen<3

But is also my second concern. Because I DO think the only thing schools do is to serve for social intelligence and for the sake of the parents, who were likely taught/incapable/unwilling. They'd be useless otherwise and a waste of tax dollars, otherwise.

It's a never ending cycle of gay [or fat, whichever] really. I LOVE the idea, I simply don't see it happening realistically because bureaucracies and fail money spending suck balls.

/I just lost my train of thought so bare with me/

I honestly thought it was every year, seeing as I wasn't publicly educated. Before I go on, do they just tell kids to run around or is there health courses that go along with this? [or at least some sort of regular, if not breif lecturing that goes with WHY you should be active]?

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What.
Srsly -_-





shit. I should probably state mah stance.

I do think it should be mandatory. However, I just don't see it happening realistically.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:39 AM   #19
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

Not reading too much into these posts since they're long as hell.

My time spent in public school was a short 3 years, but each year I had at least 1 full year of P.E.

Whether it be Weight Training, or regular P.E.

Too many slackers got out of that shit with pansie-ass notes and shit, because they didn't want to run around or some bullshit. They were the fatter/weaker ones obviously, and that shit is unacceptable.


Yeah, yeah...extenuating circumstances with health issues or whatever, but the majority are fine. The rules on the whole skipping out should be enforced more.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:51 AM   #20
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanity View Post
It's really my only issue with it at all. I know it'll be done as crappy as the rest of the sub-par education around here and cost more which will lead to cuts in other academics which will lead to more decline which... is not worth having a sliver of hope at having less fat people. Though it'd be fantastic.
Alright, cool. So if it was to be handled properly then it'd be good shit. Works for me. I think most people posting feel the same way. I doubt anyone is going to say "Fuck yeah, inadequate education at the expense of other academics!" I think most are already operating under the assumption that the physical education should be properly handled.

Quote:
I honestly thought it was every year, seeing as I wasn't publicly educated. Before I go on, do they just tell kids to run around or is there health courses that go along with this? [or at least some sort of regular, if not breif lecturing that goes with WHY you should be active]?
I had physical education every year, though my senior year they started doing half a year instead of a full year. Other half was health.

They'd teach how to play a bunch of different types of sports (I assume to expose people to sports they wouldn't normally try. Hoping that people would find something they enjoy and then start doing it on their own time.), but they also taught basics about weight lifting and stretching and shit. And yeah, they lectured about benefits of good health. Health class went into more depth about that shit.

And honestly, I would say that they should have spent more time on obesity and the benefits of being physically fit. Most people I talk to don't understand the bare basics of weight loss. Ask a random person how to lose fat around the mid-section. 9 times out of 10 they'll say something stupid like "Do situps lololol." It doesn't surprise me that people have such a hard time losing weight at all, and I think proper education would definitely help that issue.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:58 AM   #21
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

PE has its benefits. It's better than having no exercise at all. at least kids who doesn't want to learn sports or any way of being physically fit will be forced to learn some. So that in the future, if they realize that they're getting too fat, they have a sport or at least something to turn to.
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:13 AM   #22
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

Ug /sigh ^You say that like people don't NOTICE that they're walking tubs of fat. People realize they're over-weight, they're just not taught to care/how to fix it, nor are they instilled with the desire to. [how redundant of me]

ANYWAYS
Mids-

That's a big thing with me. It's one thing to teach people muscle memory, or even try to get them into something they'd enjoy [which can be faulty because our society's lazy factor is remarkable, by far], but to have the will to do that is different. They need to be taught why this is important, because it is extremely vital to over-all health. It's bullocks that they don't teach it properly to begin with, and that it's not a descriptive norm rather than strictly injunctive. And that's BECAUSE every generation isn't being taught properly.

Especially since muscle memory doesn't do you any good if you have no desire nor interest in it. Even if you lurv something it can feign do to the 'bum' factor.

I myself being a prime example of that. I was on a teenage swim team when I was 5, stayed till we moved [8, almost 9]. I hadn't swam competitively or even in lap like that until this school semester. It came back easy, and simply because I knew how to do it, and well made me stomp a lot of other people without even trying and begin completely out of shape. I love, love swimming and love water, but I'm...well...a bum >:. I know that if I were on a plane and it crashed in the middle of the ocean you could damn well bet my ass that even without the adrenalin rush I'd make it to shore first and most efficiently. However, I there are only some days I get into the pool because it'll 1] count towards my GPA and 2] I know it's better than sitting around because I had it drilled into my head for years upon years.

With that said, if it's not drilled into people and put into practice, it counts for nothing. I'd end up crying and drowning >:
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:16 AM   #23
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

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Originally Posted by Mal View Post
Even as an ethical problem, are we morally obligated to assist others in living their lives? Alternatively, do we have any right to force a certain lifestyle upon them?
No, you are not morally obligated. However, the question of whether all schools should have mandatory PE does not necessarily mean they are forcing them. If all public and private schools are forced to have them, then you might be able to make your argument. I would rather just make it into a no public school argument though since that is really the root of the issue. However, whether a school should make them mandatory is not since there are other schools to go to if you don't like it.

Personally, I think PE is important not just because it gets kids physically active, but also because it is a big rest in my day for which I can get credit. How much PE should is the only question I cannot answer/don't feel like answering. Physical education is very much important even compared to the subjects like history and science. High school isn't and shouldn't be preparing you for a vocation. It should be building you up in all areas.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:29 AM   #24
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

Physical fitness can be argued to be more important than some classes.

I'll guarantee you the vast majority of adults or those out of HS won't remember a good chunk of what they learned in math, history, or whatever. It really only sticks when you go to college and go into a certain field with that knowledge. Everything else jumps out the brain-window to save it from fucking itself up with too much information.

But learning how to take care of yourself physically? How to maintain your body, and keep it healthy? Something you'll use every day, unlike complex math, remembering the date of random battle X on random battlefield Y, or knowing why nuclear force is the strongest force in this universe.

Plus, if you don't take PE, you'll be missing out on dodgeball: the greatest game of war not fought with bullets, rockets, or swords. That's equivalent to missing out on life.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:39 AM   #25
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

As it is right now, people really don't learn shit in school. Anyone know how school was during the cold war?

Since kids these days don't really learn important things, I really don't see a problem with fitting in a PE class between the almost useless studies. But if we want to have an education blitz or something like what happened during the cold war, so we have a smart generation to deal with cool future problems (climate and environment control, alternatives to petroleum, medical advance), I kind of don't know if PE is really that important. At least when thinking about teaching it every year. I'll think of it as an elective to take one year to learn the basics.

So my point is that if that space race education shit actually worked, then we should do that again to make some smart kiddies, at a reasonable cost of less PE. If the education wasn't proven to be the cause and was only correlated, then we could use PE every year no problem.


Also, isn't there PE every year in elementary and middle school? We still got fat kids running around at that age, still. Is it the fault of the system? It wasn't until I was a teenager in high school when I decided fuck fat and started tossing people around to lose weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Education_Act

EDIT: I have a counter point to my point but Imma let u guise say it lolol
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:43 PM   #26
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

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Originally Posted by Ninja48 View Post
As it is right now, people really don't learn shit in school. Anyone know how school was during the cold war?

Since kids these days don't really learn important things, I really don't see a problem with fitting in a PE class between the almost useless studies. But if we want to have an education blitz or something like what happened during the cold war, so we have a smart generation to deal with cool future problems (climate and environment control, alternatives to petroleum, medical advance), I kind of don't know if PE is really that important. At least when thinking about teaching it every year. I'll think of it as an elective to take one year to learn the basics.

So my point is that if that space race education shit actually worked, then we should do that again to make some smart kiddies, at a reasonable cost of less PE. If the education wasn't proven to be the cause and was only correlated, then we could use PE every year no problem.


Also, isn't there PE every year in elementary and middle school? We still got fat kids running around at that age, still. Is it the fault of the system? It wasn't until I was a teenager in high school when I decided fuck fat and started tossing people around to lose weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Education_Act

EDIT: I have a counter point to my point but Imma let u guise say it lolol
People don't learn shit in school? Come on, I wouldn't even admit that and I am for a liberal education. The means for learning useful shit is there. Teachers are there to try and excite interest. Kids are definitely learning things that are useful. Literature is full of good moral lessons and shit. Science, math, and history give better understandings of the world and develop critical thinking.

The school system is what has failed, and not the subjects. Your idea is to try and breed geniuses as if they aren't people, but robots. The kids are going to want to have a life and not devote themselves to rocket engineering.

There is more to life than building rockets and working for the good of humanity and that "more" is your own existence. You must learn to enjoy that before you go on and do all that other shit. Teach kids to love learning in general. Don't fit them into some grand scheme of things so that all the world can leech off their life.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:46 PM   #27
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja48 View Post
As it is right now, people really don't learn shit in school. Anyone know how school was during the cold war?

Since kids these days don't really learn important things, I really don't see a problem with fitting in a PE class between the almost useless studies. But if we want to have an education blitz or something like what happened during the cold war, so we have a smart generation to deal with cool future problems (climate and environment control, alternatives to petroleum, medical advance), I kind of don't know if PE is really that important. At least when thinking about teaching it every year. I'll think of it as an elective to take one year to learn the basics.

So my point is that if that space race education shit actually worked, then we should do that again to make some smart kiddies, at a reasonable cost of less PE. If the education wasn't proven to be the cause and was only correlated, then we could use PE every year no problem.


Also, isn't there PE every year in elementary and middle school? We still got fat kids running around at that age, still. Is it the fault of the system? It wasn't until I was a teenager in high school when I decided fuck fat and started tossing people around to lose weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Education_Act

EDIT: I have a counter point to my point but Imma let u guise say it lolol
I don't know if I've got the counter-point that you're looking for, and I don't know exactly what was taught differently during the cold war era, so I can't really comment too much on that. All it really says in that link is that there was increased funding for schools.

But 1) Why is it necessary to choose normal academics OR PE? Why can't it be both? Especially since poor health due to obesity and shit is a current and future problem as well.

And if the education boom was effective in the cold war era, then similar results would be effective if applies to other areas of study like PE.

2)As for little fat kids, they really can't dictate their lifestyle choices at that age. So it could just be poor parenting. Which proper physical education would address in the long term (Since future generations would be more educated on the subject).

Also, you said that when you became a teenager in high school (and more capable of making proper life choices.) you decided to be a physically fit badass. With more people being properly educated on the benefits of physical fitness, and being exposed to a variety of potentially enjoyable ways to becoming physically fit, many more people could more easily make similar decisions.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #28
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

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People don't learn shit in school? Come on, I wouldn't even admit that and I am for a liberal education. The means for learning useful shit is there. Teachers are there to try and excite interest. Kids are definitely learning things that are useful. Literature is full of good moral lessons and shit. Science, math, and history give better understandings of the world and develop critical thinking.

The school system is what has failed, and not the subjects. Your idea is to try and breed geniuses as if they aren't people, but robots. The kids are going to want to have a life and not devote themselves to rocket engineering.

There is more to life than building rockets and working for the good of humanity and that "more" is your own existence. You must learn to enjoy that before you go on and do all that other shit. Teach kids to love learning in general. Don't fit them into some grand scheme of things so that all the world can leech off their life.
You're a little off topic, here. I didn't really mention anything about the actual value of learning. I just said people don't learn important things in high school, which is the good stuff you're talking about like lessons from literature and history, scientific thinking, practical math and etc. But most kids in high school are lazy assholes who don't care about anything but social relationships. They pass classes with as minimal effort they can, which is probably with last minute memorizing that gets them past tests. Cheating also happens a lot, too. Not many are motivated to actually grasp a subject because it's easier to memorize and cheat a bit.

I would say almost a good 2/3rds of people in my high school were that type of unmotivated student, and my high school is consistently ranked in the top 50 high schools in the US by some stupid apparently qualified magazine. Sometimes I really wonder how stupid a "normal" high school is.

But yeah, my point from people not learning shit is what you claim as the flawed system.

What I'm saying is that if we could somehow dedicate the system to producing results, and that dedication meant cutting PE, I would prefer PE not lasting 4 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibs
But 1) Why is it necessary to choose normal academics OR PE? Why can't it be both? Especially since poor health due to obesity and shit is a current and future problem as well.

And if the education boom was effective in the cold war era, then similar results would be effective if applies to other areas of study like PE.
It's a matter of priority. Obesity is an American problem, but not finding an alternative for oil endangers pretty much all of modern society. And environment / climate is global, too. If there's 4 years of PE and we cut it to 1 (in high school), there's room for 3 extra years of science or math electives otherwise unavailable. The real question is whether or not this boost will matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibs
2)As for little fat kids, they really can't dictate their lifestyle choices at that age. So it could just be poor parenting. Which proper physical education would address in the long term (Since future generations would be more educated on the subject).

Also, you said that when you became a teenager in high school (and more capable of making proper life choices.) you decided to be a physically fit badass. With more people being properly educated on the benefits of physical fitness, and being exposed to a variety of potentially enjoyable ways to becoming physically fit, many more people could more easily make similar decisions.
Assuming if it's done right, then I agree that more PE would help obesity. This makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibs
I don't know if I've got the counter-point that you're looking for, and I don't know exactly what was taught differently during the cold war era, so I can't really comment too much on that. All it really says in that link is that there was increased funding for schools.
Yeah exactly. There was increased funding and increased aid for people trying to get into college. What it mostly seemed to have done is help science students get the study they wanted in college, so it probably didn't have a profound effect on high school. And there's no PE in college, lol.

More:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_r..._and_education
But I would say it needs some citations.

So yeah, unless there was some sort of relation in the ratio of education between PE and science during the cold war era, then it doesn't have much to say in this discussion.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:41 PM   #29
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

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It's a matter of priority. Obesity is an American problem, but not finding an alternative for oil endangers pretty much all of modern society. And environment / climate is global, too. If there's 4 years of PE and we cut it to 1 (in high school), there's room for 3 extra years of science or math electives otherwise unavailable. The real question is whether or not this boost will matter.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean it would be necessary to choose between one or the other. Science/math or PE. A reevaluation of the school's course management, slightly longer school days, or other solutions that could be used to allow both.

And proper PE has benefits that tie in with your argument as well. Like physically fit people being more productive. It requires no stretch of the imagination to see that a physically fit scientist would be more likely to succeed over one who is plagued by chronic illnesses associated with poor physical fitness. A brilliant scientist could do much more for humanity with a longer lifespan. Etc.

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Yeah exactly. There was increased funding and increased aid for people trying to get into college. What it mostly seemed to have done is help science students get the study they wanted in college, so it probably didn't have a profound effect on high school. And there's no PE in college, lol.

More:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_r..._and_education
But I would say it needs some citations.

So yeah, unless there was some sort of relation in the ratio of education between PE and science during the cold war era, then it doesn't have much to say in this discussion.
Okay. I see. I thought the program may have involved actually teaching different things, or using different teaching methods.

And I think the boom in advancement was greatly influenced by the much more direct competition between the US and the Soviets. I mean, we still are competing with other countries in the world economically. But it was much more in-your-face and dire during that era. Which probably played a pretty massive role in everything.
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:20 PM   #30
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Re: Should school require PE for more then one year?

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Yeah, but that doesn't mean it would be necessary to choose between one or the other. Science/math or PE. A reevaluation of the school's course management, slightly longer school days, or other solutions that could be used to allow both.

And proper PE has benefits that tie in with your argument as well. Like physically fit people being more productive. It requires no stretch of the imagination to see that a physically fit scientist would be more likely to succeed over one who is plagued by chronic illnesses associated with poor physical fitness. A brilliant scientist could do much more for humanity with a longer lifespan. Etc.
How else could both be allowed without there being room for even more extra science classes?

Also, you could say knowledge of nutrition would be just as beneficial as knowledge of physical exercise (lengthen life just as well), should there be a 4 year course for a nutrition class? I don't think either of those subjects will take 4 years to grasp.
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