One Piece 591 - Page 2

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 01:22 AM

I guess I'm not so generous when it comes to analyzing the factors when it comes to bounty increase.

The 200 mil beri increase after EL was understandable. They wiped out thousands of soldiers, defeated Cp9, Luffy took out Lucci whom was considered invincible basically and the place got burnt to ashes thanks to the buster call.

This time he didn't really beat anyone, aside from punching that guys in SA nothing else he did was that big in my eyes. Granted that he shocked every one with his Haki during the war he was still outclassed by most of the big guns in there.

Putting him at 500 mil is elevating him to god pirate to be honest, i don't think hes there yet despite knowing that the WG sees him as a big threat.

Kinako · 07-09-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakashi87

If you rack up what he's done since Sabaody Archipelago a 400 mil beri bounty doesn't seem unrealistic. He beat the shit out of a tenryuubito, broke into Impel Down which created a domino effects of events which lead to level six prisoners running lose (with an assit from Blackbeard) AND breaking out of Impel Down, lastly opposing the government and fighting along side Whitebeard to save Ace and later escaping. Punching that tenryuubitok, an act (even the craziest pirates on the Grand Line wouldn't even dream of doing) alone must jack up his bounty quite a bit.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it went up to 500 mil beri.

Let's not forget the fact that he has been revealed as Dragon's son too. But the Government has given people helluva high ass bounties for a lot less. Case in point, Robin. 79 million beri just because the little bitch knew how to read Poneglyphs. Granted, Poneglyph reading is required to rebuild the baddest weapons in the One Piece world but they gave her that shit really because she was a smart kid. I was going to say that they were going to double his shit to 600 mil beri. In the WG's eyes Luffy is a disrespectful motherfucker. Im still thinking Luffy pulled some more crazy shit and that's what Chopper saw in the paper.

Oh yeah this has got to be Dragon that is being spoken of: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/71384529/7

I knew he was a Storm fruit user. It also explains why Tralfagar bounced like a basketball. But what does he know about Dragon?? And what does Dragon have against Rayliegh??

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 04:31 PM

Robin's bounty made sense. She is one of a kind, and having her knowledge at their disposal would be incredibly beneficial to the WG. Also they gave her such a high bounty from the get-go to take advantage of the fact that she was still a little kid, and most people would not resist such a large sum of money for what would appear to be an easy capture.

That's why everywhere she went people tried to catch her for the reward.

After EL Luffy's bounty as well as everyone else getting one/having theirs raised made sense. A small group of pirates took out Cp9, an entire army basically and eluded a buster call. That's a feat of epic proportions.

Bounties are a way for the WG to validate the lvl of danger an enemy presents, and while Luffy is powerful, he is clearly not top shelf. Hes really good, but not there yet.
500 mil is too much in my eyes because given the events of the wars, and Luffy's own words he has a lot to learn still.

Kinako · 07-09-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Robin's bounty made sense. She is one of a kind, and having her knowledge at their disposal would be incredibly beneficial to the WG. Also they gave her such a high bounty from the get-go to take advantage of the fact that she was still a little kid, and most people would not resist such a large sum of money for what would appear to be an easy capture.

That's why everywhere she went people tried to catch her for the reward.

After EL Luffy's bounty as well as everyone else getting one/having theirs raised made sense. A small group of pirates took out Cp9, an entire army basically and eluded a buster call. That's a feat of epic proportions.

Bounties are a way for the WG to validate the lvl of danger an enemy presents, and while Luffy is powerful, he is clearly not top shelf. Hes really good, but not there yet.
500 mil is too much in my eyes because given the events of the wars, and Luffy's own words he has a lot to learn still.

Yeah you got a point as far as Luffy needing to step up his game. I still think he is gonna have his bounty doubled though. He's a disrespectful motherfucker LOL. FUCK THE WG!!!!!!!!!

stubborn_d0nkey · 07-09-2010, 05:53 PM

Strength isn't everything.
He is a "D". He is the son of Dragon. He did unthinkable things most importantl, he hit a world noble. They would most likely demand for higher bounty, and they have pull.

The WG/Marines has already showed that they are not the best at leveling strength (remember chopper) so his feats might count for more than the strength he displayed during those feats.

Scientia · 07-09-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Bounties are a way for the WG to validate the lvl of danger an enemy presents, and while Luffy is powerful, he is clearly not top shelf. Hes really good, but not there yet.
500 mil is too much in my eyes because given the events of the wars, and Luffy's own words he has a lot to learn still.

I always thought that Bounties are tools that the government uses to give people an incentive to catch pirates. The more a pirate gets on their nerves, the more they want them catched, and the more they want them catched, the more money they give for their reward. That's what I always thought the main purpose of it was. Don't misconstrue my intent, however, I do know that bounties serve more than one purpose, such as what you typed.

My intent is that it's going to serve the primary purpose before it serves its second one. Prime examples of that would pretty much be anyone who has had a bounty that didn't really suit their overall strength level. I think Bellamy would be a good example. I mean, honestly, do you think Bellamy is stronger than Buggy or Arlong? It's because of the things he's done (or rather things he's done that have been recorded), not the strength he has in a one on one fight. Though of course, Luffy's strong as hell. Really all he needs is good control of haki. Which is what I think the 'Dark King' plans on teaching him.

Also, if you ask me, the Shichibukai would have had a lot more higher bounties if they would have continued to be pirates against the world government (that is, if they never got caught or killed, of course). lol @ Crocodile having only 80 million. Wouldn't have even been considered a Supernova.

Point is, if Luffy is charged as a co-conspirator of the plan to break into and basically release a bunch of prisoners from it, and is charged completely as the guy who hit a noble and escaped from an admiral, his bounty is most likely 400 million at least.

Have we ever seen Whitebeard's bounty? My memory is quite terrible, so I wouldn't really know. I think once or if we ever find out his, it'll be an amazing bar to use a kind of measuring stick for exactly how to determine someone's bounty. His and Dragon's.

Also, Lucci's awesome.

Oh, yeah, and Buggy's shit is going to bounce up, too.

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 06:18 PM

You're diluting my point to 1 basic factor, and that's missing the point.

Bounties represent how much of a threat someone presents the WG, so in order for a person's bounty to go up they have to earn it.

Now all of this is pertaining to the notion that Luffy's bounty is going to go to 500 mil or more if there is an increase, and in my opinion what he did in the war doesn't warrant such an increase at all.

When he beat Croc his bounty increased to 100 mil, which was totally justified since he took out a SB and his crew basically freed a kingdom.

The second leap came after they wiped the floor with Cp9, which was considered the strongest Cp9 of all time, and Luffy beat Lucci who had an insane reputation of being a freaking deity basically.

300 mil made sense since on top of that EL was destroyed, Luffy and his crew even evaded a buster call.

Now punching tenryuubito is bad business since they have the marine admirals as bodyguards basically, but aside from that what luffy did in ID and the war don't match up to his past feats. He was slapped around by Magellan in the prison, and during the war the only people he beat were fodder.

So in my opinion sticking a gigantic bounty on his head based on those events makes no sense, since he really didn't do much to show that hes a bigger threat than he was before. He still doesn't measure up to the big boys, he even knows that himself.

If there is an bounty increase 500 mil is way too much, 600 is ludicrous.

Quote:

I always thought that Bounties are tools that the government uses to give people an incentive to catch pirates. The more a pirate gets on their nerves, the more they want them catched, and the more they want them catched, the more money they give for their reward.

Not really when it comes to OP.

Through out the entire series no bounty hunter hasn't been completely fodder. The only people that can deal with bounty heads are the marines themselves and the SB. The manga even mentions how some pirates can't be ignored by the WG, and those are the big bounty heads that the marines go out of their way to eliminate.

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My intent is that it's going to serve the primary purpose before it serves its second one. Prime examples of that would pretty much be anyone who has had a bounty that didn't really suit their overall strength level. I think Bellamy would be a good example. I mean, honestly, do you think Bellamy is stronger than Buggy or Arlong?

Really ? Buggy ? lol, come on.

I well aware that strength isn't everything, we're talking feats.

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Point is, if Luffy is charged as a co-conspirator of the plan to break into and basically release a bunch of prisoners from it, and is charged completely as the guy who hit a noble and escaped from an admiral, his bounty is most likely 400 million at least.

Luffy didn't release anyone, he went to ID for Ace and Ace alone. My point is that aside from punching a noble Luffy didn't do much else. He got beat pretty badly both in ID and the war, and while the WG recognizes how dangerous he is they also know that he isn't up there in terms of being such a terrifying enemy to them.

Scientia · 07-09-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Really ? Buggy ? lol, come on.

What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

I well aware that strength isn't everything, we're talking feats.

We agree then. It doesn't matter if Luffy isn't top tier, then. His feats are more than enough for a high bounty. Which is where we seem to disagree, but at the same time we don't. I think 400 million is reasonable for what he did. Which at some point in time you said that's pushing it. Now you say this only applies to 500 and above. Which I think we really have no basis for deciding what's pushing it or not. Considering we don't know how much the most wanted man in the world's is. It's based on the impact that what Luffy did had. It's not just about going in there and defeating high tiers (thought that helps, too). Also, Luffy even surviving against poison man is a feat worthy of praise, you should know that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Luffy didn't release anyone, he went to ID for Ace and Ace alone.

I never said what he went there for. Buggy released the prisoners, and Luffy released Jimbei and Crocodile. Also, if it weren't for Luffy, the 'okama queen' wouldn't have ever left. That can be considered 'releasing.' Point is, the government isn't going to sit there and pick out who released who. They're going to make it plain and simple: Buggy and Luffy both went deep into impel down and came out with a lot of prisoners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

My point is that aside from punching a noble Luffy didn't do much else. He got beat pretty badly both in ID and the war, and while the WG recognizes how dangerous he is they also know that he isn't up there in terms of being such a terrifying enemy to them.

You're right, breaking into and sucessfully escaping an otherwise inescapable prison isn't an impressive feat at all. It doesn't make him a dangerous enemy on their list at all, either. You're still stuck on his strength-level. Which is why you don't think he deserves a high bounty. =/ Also, who didn't get 'beat pretty badly' in the war? It's a war. And how do you even know what is considered 'up there' in terms of being such a terrifying enemy? We haven't even seen Dragon's yet.

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 07:17 PM

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You're right, breaking into and sucessfully escaping an otherwise inescapable prison isn't an impressive feat at all.

Compared to the other things he accomplished it doesn't measure up, don't twist my words. Taking out a SB and Cp9 vastly out weight what happened in ID, not to mention other factors such as BB showing up had an indirect effect on their scape.

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It doesn't make him a dangerous enemy on their list at all, either. You're still stuck on his strength-level. Which is why you don't think he deserves a high bounty.

His bounty is already high, I don't see the point of adding another 100/200 mil to it when he isn't a bigger threat than he was before.

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=/ Also, who didn't get 'beat pretty badly' in the war? It's a war.

Again twisting my argument. I used to war as basis for comparison between Luffy and the other big name fighters in there, he didn't beat a single one and given the track record for raising bounties in the series that fact doesn't make him any more of a threat than before the war.

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And how do you even know what is considered 'up there' in terms of being such a terrifying enemy? We haven't even seen Dragon's yet.

I do actually, since the manga speaks for itself.

Defeating a SB already puts you above the cut compared to the other countless pirates out there. Taking out one of the most secretive and powerful Gov agencies and resulting in the destruction of one of their most important facilities means the WG has to chase you down and stomp you ( case and point Kuma going after them in TB ).

My rational is that if you follow the flow of events that got Luffy's bounty to where is is a huge increase right now makes no sense. Specially since the WG didn't want to validate them taking out a second SB in fears of letting their notoriety out of control and be embarrassed further.

The marines beat the WB pirates, they're riding this victory now and it would be retarded for Luffy to get a big bounty increase from his current 300 mil when he failed in his task and wasn't strong enough to pose a threat to any of the big names in the war.

stubborn_d0nkey · 07-09-2010, 07:36 PM

What Luffy did while in Impel Down is irrelevant. What the WG thinks he did is what matters. They probably put (mostly) everything on him, since he was the trigger of all of it.

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 07:40 PM

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What Luffy did while in Impel Down is irrelevant. What the WG thinks he did is what matters. They probably put (mostly) everything on him, since he was the trigger of all of it.

You have to look at the situation from multiple angles. People saw the war since it was being broadcast, and since the WG won they'll want total absolution over that fact. padding the scales for a pirate just wouldn't make sense at this point.

Scientia · 07-09-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Compared to the other things he accomplished it doesn't measure up, don't twist my words. Taking out a SB and Cp9 vastly out weight what happened in ID, not to mention other factors such as BB showing up had an indirect effect on their scape.

Ah, so we have a new problem here.

Let me ask you something, If I killed the president, I would be pretty wanted, right? Now, if I killed a Governor on top of that, a lower class officer, wouldn't I still be wanted even more than before?

Just because it wasn't as impressive, doesn't mean it doesn't make him more wanted. The more he does, the more wanted he gets, the more wanted he gets, the more higher his bounty goes. It's that simple.

You make it seem likes it's gaining levels in an RPG game. The higher level you get, the more experience points you need to even gain 1 simple level. And it could be like that, but nothing in the manga we've seen suggests that. At all.

The highest increase he even got was 200 million. So we can at least assume that he won't get more than a 200 million boost again this time. Though I do think it's rather debatable as to which is more impressive. Breaking into Impel down and escaping with a bunch of prisoners or breaking into Enes Lobby and taking down CP9. It really doesn't matter, because there's no objective way to truly decide which is more impressive because there's not that much of a difference. In both cases he has a lot of help. And the only real strong one in CP9 was Lucci. The rest wouldn't even stand a chance against the higher tiers of One Piece, aside from that one rare chance where the devil fruit ability works in favor for them (like the wax and the poison).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

His bounty is already high, I don't see the point of adding another 100/200 mil to it when he isn't a bigger threat than he was before.

The more crimes you commit, the more bigger a threat you are. lol. Why can't you see that?

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Originally Posted by Dagoro

Again twisting my argument. I used to war as basis for comparison between Luffy and the other big name fighters in there, he didn't beat a single one and given the track record for raising bounties in the series that fact doesn't make him any more of a threat than before the war.

I told you, beating high tiers isn't the only way to get your bounty up. The simple fact that he survived the war is impressive (excluding the plot factor that this is One Piece and almost no main character dies, especially the main one).

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 07:57 PM

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Ah, so we have a new problem here.

Let me ask you something, If I killed the president, I would be pretty wanted, right? Now, if I killed a Governor on top of that, a lower class officer, wouldn't I still be wanted even more than before?

Just because it wasn't as impressive, doesn't mean it doesn't make him more wanted. The more he does, the more wanted he gets, the more wanted he gets, the more higher his bounty goes. It's that simple.

That comparison is terrible. The manga makes it pretty obvious that the WG only gives a damn if a pirate does something really huge. Aokiji commented on it when they met the first time, that the things they did make it apparent that their growth as a crew was off the charts therefore making the WG unable to leave them be.

A pirate can take out a few hundred reg marines and the WG wouldn't really give a damn. But if a pirate takes down one of their power houses they have to pay attention because that Pirate is above the cut and by defeating on of their best poses a real threat.

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The more crimes you commit, the more bigger a threat you are. lol. Why can't you see that?

Sigh, that line of thinking holds no water in Op. There is constant crime and killing in the series due to so many pirates being out there, yet only a hand full are worth the WG's time and resources to pursue and stop.

If it was so easy to get on the WG's radar there would be lots more pirates with high bounties due to crime/violence, but that's not the criteria in the manga's parameters. Only the ones who survive the endless hordes are worthy of being consider dangerous.

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I told you, beating high tiers isn't the only way to get your bounty up. The simple fact that he survived the war is impressive (excluding the plot factor that this is One Piece and almost no main character dies, especially the main one).

Sweet, than i guess a ton of pirates will be getting a bounty increase since they too didn't die in the war.

The Marines won against one of the YonKou, i find it unlikely that they will give an inch to any pirate and not milk the victory to its fullest.

Scientia · 07-09-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

That comparison is terrible. The manga makes it pretty obvious that the WG only gives a damn if a pirate does something really huge. Aokiji commented on it when they met the first time, that the things they did make it apparent that their growth as a crew was off the charts therefore making the WG unable to leave them be.

lol. And once again, how exactly is breaking into fucking Impel Down not huge? The comparison works just fine. Both things that I did were huge, except the first thing I did was not as big as the second. That doesn't mean the government isn't going to take that second thing into account, you know, because it was still a huge thing that I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Sigh, that line of thinking holds no water in Op. There is constant crime and killing in the series due to so many pirates being out there, yet only a hand full are worth the WG's time and resources to pursue and stop.

Actually, I'm sure that those who kill have bounties. And that's because that line of thinking works just fine. The more they kill, the higher the bounty goes, it's just that killing isn't that big of a threat to the WG. Now, breaking into Impel Down still is. Once again, the more crimes you commit, the more of a threat you are. Speaking only in terms of you and your bounty. That line of thinking only falls apart when you incorrectly use it to compare other pirates and their feats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

Sweet, than i guess a ton of pirates will be getting a bounty increase since they too didn't die in the war.

Surviving the war isn't the only reason Luffy is going to get a bounty increase. But not dying in a war of tyrants isn't a bad thing. Even if you did get beat up, like everyone else did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

The Marines won against one of the YonKou, i find it unlikely that they will give an inch to any pirate and not milk the victory to its fullest.

Not sure what you mean, but if by this you mean they purposely won't give Luffy a high bounty that he deserves, then that still doesn't change the fact that he deserves it.

And like I said, you could be right, but I see no reason to see it that way. If Luffy does get a high bounty increase, then I'll be right. If he doesn't, then you'll be right, and it'll be just like an RPG game. Where the higher level (higher bounty), the more experience points (the more impressive feats) you'll need to gain another level (a higher bounty).

Dagoro · 07-09-2010, 08:35 PM

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lol. And once again, how exactly is breaking into fucking Impel Down not huge? The comparison works just fine. Both things that I did were huge, except the first thing I did was not as big as the second. That doesn't mean the government isn't going to take that second thing into account, you know, because it was still a huge thing that I did.

Jesus, how many times do I have to repeat myself ?

Compared to the things Luffy did that warranted a bounty increase breaking into ID wasn't that impressive. Not only that what happened in ID wasn't focused on Luffy alone, other people stole the spotlight as well.

BB caused a large number of prisoners to Kill one another for a chance of " freedom ", and walked out of there with some of the most feared characters in the world of pirates as his new Nakama. That alone shifts the events of ID to focus on him instead of Luffy. As opposed to the other events such as Alabasta and EL in which Luffy was the center piece of it all.

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Actually, I'm sure that those who kill have bounties. And that's because that line of thinking works just fine. The more they kill, the higher the bounty goes, it's just that killing isn't that big of a threat to the WG. Now, breaking into Impel Down still is. Once again, the more crimes you commit, the more of a threat you are. Speaking only in terms of you and your bounty. That line of thinking only falls apart when you incorrectly use it to compare other pirates and their feats.

To bad there are no panels to back up that notion. All the people with bounties have committed something big. Be it assaulting the WG in some way,invading/controlling a territory or taking out big names. The only record of Killing influencing a bounty in the manga is Kid's case. But as Shaky explained , the reason why he had that extra amount on his head was due to his cruelty towards innocent civilians. And given the dude's short fuse and what he spoke about to Killer in front of the Auction house he must have killed an ass load of people for simply laughing at him for chasing OP.

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Not sure what you mean, but if by this you mean they purposely won't give Luffy a high bounty that he deserves, then that still doesn't change the fact that he deserves it.

That's your opinion, I for one don't think he deserves it. As for the WG not giving him an increase, i only pointed it out that they have done that before when they didn't give him an increase for beating Moria.

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And like I said, you could be right, but I see no reason to see it that way. If Luffy does get a high bounty increase, then I'll be right. If he doesn't, then you'll be right, and it'll be just like an RPG game. Where the higher level (higher bounty), the more experience points (the more impressive feats) you'll need to gain another level (a higher bounty).

This isn't a matter of right and wrong, we're just defending out respective povs. You think he deserves a big increase, i don't. In the end if Oda decides Luffy is worth 1 bill we got no say in the matter. Hell for all we know the newspaper article Chopper reacted to has nothing to do with a Bounty increase, it could be part of Rayleight's plan to have them meet somewhere else.

07-09-2010, 01:22 AM	#16
Dagoro Daifunka Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Braving the New World. Posts: 8,735 Thanks: 72 Thanked 7,170 Times in 2,868 Posts	Re: One Piece 591 I guess I'm not so generous when it comes to analyzing the factors when it comes to bounty increase. The 200 mil beri increase after EL was understandable. They wiped out thousands of soldiers, defeated Cp9, Luffy took out Lucci whom was considered invincible basically and the place got burnt to ashes thanks to the buster call. This time he didn't really beat anyone, aside from punching that guys in SA nothing else he did was that big in my eyes. Granted that he shocked every one with his Haki during the war he was still outclassed by most of the big guns in there. Putting him at 500 mil is elevating him to god pirate to be honest, i don't think hes there yet despite knowing that the WG sees him as a big threat. __________________

07-09-2010, 04:31 PM	#18
Dagoro Daifunka Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Braving the New World. Posts: 8,735 Thanks: 72 Thanked 7,170 Times in 2,868 Posts	Re: One Piece 591 Robin's bounty made sense. She is one of a kind, and having her knowledge at their disposal would be incredibly beneficial to the WG. Also they gave her such a high bounty from the get-go to take advantage of the fact that she was still a little kid, and most people would not resist such a large sum of money for what would appear to be an easy capture. That's why everywhere she went people tried to catch her for the reward. After EL Luffy's bounty as well as everyone else getting one/having theirs raised made sense. A small group of pirates took out Cp9, an entire army basically and eluded a buster call. That's a feat of epic proportions. Bounties are a way for the WG to validate the lvl of danger an enemy presents, and while Luffy is powerful, he is clearly not top shelf. Hes really good, but not there yet. 500 mil is too much in my eyes because given the events of the wars, and Luffy's own words he has a lot to learn still. __________________

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