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Old 09-07-2010, 07:15 PM   #406
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

just click your hooves together and say there's no place like home 3 times
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:13 PM   #407
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

Wow, you guys argue a lot on this crap. And how many times did you all switch subjects? All I had to do was skim through every few pages, and they were all a completely different subject as I went along. Are there any of you on here who are actually nice, or at least mature to the other members?
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:30 PM   #408
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
Wow, you guys argue a lot on this crap. And how many times did you all switch subjects? All I had to do was skim through every few pages, and they were all a completely different subject as I went along. Are there any of you on here who are actually nice, or at least mature to the other members?
28 pages. Do you seriously expect the subject to stay the same for 28 pages? Nope.

Btw, welcome to the forum.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:32 PM   #409
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

Good point, but a normal forum has well-placed staff, and the members shouldn't rage this much without being stopped. This forum obviously isn't normal :P. Also, thank you. That's one nice person so far. And it doesn't seem like you were too far in any arguments.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:30 AM   #410
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
Good point, but a normal forum has well-placed staff, and the members shouldn't rage this much without being stopped. This forum obviously isn't normal :P. Also, thank you. That's one nice person so far. And it doesn't seem like you were too far in any arguments.
Well, if you know the NarutoFan forum, you know a forum like this one is much better, where the mods are more flexible. Abiding the rules strictly creates hostility and attitudes. I agree with the rage part though.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:36 AM   #411
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

We only argued because certain people want to be stubborn and moronic when we called them out on being prejudice against the muslims. Then the topic switched to religion in which people were like "No Cath0lici$m iz n0 branch of Chri$tianity th3y'r3 c0mpl3t3ly dif3r3nt dur hurr." Then it switched to the current topic. This wouldn't have so many pages if people weren't stubborn and prejudice.

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Old 09-09-2010, 12:57 AM   #412
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
Are there any of you on here who are actually nice, or at least mature to the other members?
I'm actually quite nice and mature. I just have a low tolerance to stupidity. During the original debate there were those pulling ideas out of their asses that were so retarded it was sad. It just branched out while still keeping to the original premise of "Organized Religion is retarded".

Most people on here are quite intelligent, nice, and mature when you get away from the Naruto section (those retards apparently don't know there's a forum beyond there). There are a couple that are "herp durp, j00 iz rong. eye iz smrt". These are the morons that usually don't post often, or last long.

As nlb pointed out, there was the "Catholicism isn't a branch of Christianity" (when it really is) argument. Before that it was "The Community Center will indoctrinate everyone into Islam" (when it really won't). Before that it was "Al Qaeda = All Muslims" (when they really don't), etc, etc.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:11 AM   #413
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
Good point, but a normal forum has well-placed staff, and the members shouldn't rage this much without being stopped. This forum obviously isn't normal :P. Also, thank you. That's one nice person so far. And it doesn't seem like you were too far in any arguments.
Nice is overrated. You not gonna get any on this site.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:59 AM   #414
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
Wow, you guys argue a lot on this crap. And how many times did you all switch subjects? All I had to do was skim through every few pages, and they were all a completely different subject as I went along. Are there any of you on here who are actually nice, or at least mature to the other members?
Kael explained it perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
Good point, but a normal forum has well-placed staff, and the members shouldn't rage this much without being stopped. This forum obviously isn't normal :P. Also, thank you. That's one nice person so far. And it doesn't seem like you were too far in any arguments.
Normal forums suck.

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Nice is overrated. You not gonna get any on this site.
Wrong. They'll get plenty if they aren't a moron.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:50 AM   #415
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
We only argued because certain people want to be stubborn and moronic when we called them out on being prejudice against the muslims. Then the topic switched to religion in which people were like "No Cath0lici$m iz n0 branch of Chri$tianity th3y'r3 c0mpl3t3ly dif3r3nt dur hurr." Then it switched to the current topic. This wouldn't have so many pages if people weren't stubborn and prejudice.
I didn't read any prejudice, just reason. It looked like the other members tried to turn it into prejudice. Like what happened with the Iyasu kid. He was trying to explain how it's not right that there was a mosque being planted on the 9/11 site. I have to agree, it's not right at all. And that Sharia Law thing; you guys made good points that there could be people who refuse it, but all laws/amendments go to everyone no matter what, not just a specific group of people. And even still, if it did just go to certain people, it would still take away the right of this place being called a free country. What if a Muslim family just moved to the US, and the husband is with the Sharia Law, but the wife is against it? A divorce would put their family to even more shame, and the husband could gladly beat his wife with no one to stop him. The wife beating is just a portion of the Sharia Law, and a category that seems to be touched on the most within the main subject. That's why the subject kept coming up; to support that Muslim religion is becoming much larger than it should, erasing the 'free country' from the Earth. What he was trying to mainly say, is that all religions should be balanced, and in order to support that, he had to bring up several subjects like this one. The only reason it was able to work slightly better with over the seas countries, was that they were never a 'free country' in the first place. The US is divided into almost every religion, but other countries usually have a majority.

That kid wasn't being prejudice at all. If anything, he was trying to speak against the extremists who are affiliated with all of this. He even stated he had nothing against Muslims, but the ones who supported all of this. You all pushed him over the edge with that prejudice, and manly/unmanly crap. So by misleading him, you mislead yourselves, and in the end, it was a bunch of bickering over nothing, which it looks like he tried to state several times to end all of it. For a twelve year old, the fact that he knew all of this, and was actually able to act like an adult in the beginning was good in itself. I have to admit, the cussing was out of line, but the ones who bickered at him were no better.

The reason I brought up Iyasu is that it's probably the worst case I've read on this forum so far, even if it has only been a couple days since I started reading. Plus, it's a perfect example of the unkindness, immaturity, and rage that I was talking about. Things like that need to be ended immediately, and not by booting someone permanately, throwing their reputation in the dirt, or in his case, chasing a member off, but by setteling it quietly, and kindly with a respected member who also shows respect. That's why this forum is not good at all. It needs at least some order, or it can either overflow with more of these types of people, cause real-world issues, or even get people arrested for things like 'cyber-bullying', or harassment of some sort. That wouldn't do well with the members, the admin, the forum, or the main site itself.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:57 PM   #416
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

I don't feel like picking apart this entire post, so I'll just point out the major flaws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
I didn't read any prejudice, just reason. It looked like the other members tried to turn it into prejudice.
Actually, it was prejudice. The main antagonist for this was Human Rasengan. He tried a convoluted string of premises that essentially equated to "All Muslims are like those in Al Qaeda". This is totally not the case in any way, shape, or form. Most Muslims have denounced Al Qaeda and condemned the attacks as "Un-Islamic".

Quote:
Like what happened with the Iyasu kid. He was trying to explain how it's not right that there was a mosque being planted on the 9/11 site. I have to agree, it's not right at all.
Good thing it's not being built on Ground Zero, but 2 blocks away. For those that don't realize: in downtown New York City, 1 block basically equals 1 mile. On top of all of the buildings between the future community center and Ground Zero, kinda difficult for it to see the site (even with it being ~13 stories (I think)). It's the "OMG DERE BILDIN A MOSK NEER 9/11" mentality that makes people retards. America was built on religious freedom (all religions, not just the white people religions).

Quote:
And that Sharia Law thing; you guys made good points that there could be people who refuse it, but all laws/amendments go to everyone no matter what, not just a specific group of people. And even still, if it did just go to certain people, it would still take away the right of this place being called a free country.
Um... how? It's a religious law, similar to the 10 Commandments, that is unique to Islam and Islam only. Non-Muslims don't have to follow it because they are not a part of the religion. Muslims aren't trying to push Sharia Law into the Constitution, it's for their observation only.

Quote:
What if a Muslim family just moved to the US, and the husband is with the Sharia Law, but the wife is against it?
They wouldn't have even married if that was the case. If the entire family was Muslim, then the ENTIRE FAMILY would have to follow Sharia Law. Again, it's their GOD'S LAW. One person in the religion cannot be a part of that religion and go against God's Law.

Quote:
That kid wasn't being prejudice at all. If anything, he was trying to speak against the extremists who are affiliated with all of this. He even stated he had nothing against Muslims, but the ones who supported all of this. You all pushed him over the edge with that prejudice, and manly/unmanly crap.
He's the one that said that Al Qaeda would view this as a victory, even though it goes against the very thing they were trying to do with the attacks. He's the one that pointed out that Muslims all over the world were cheering for the attacks (when they weren't, most Muslims denounced the attacks). He's the one that tried to press the fact that "Al Qaeda = ALL Muslims" when they don't.

Quote:
So by misleading him, you mislead yourselves, and in the end, it was a bunch of bickering over nothing, which it looks like he tried to state several times to end all of it. For a twelve year old, the fact that he knew all of this, and was actually able to act like an adult in the beginning was good in itself. I have to admit, the cussing was out of line, but the ones who bickered at him were no better.
We brought logic and skepticism to the table. He brought prejudice and racism. How is misleading him?

Quote:
The reason I brought up Iyasu is that it's probably the worst case I've read on this forum so far, even if it has only been a couple days since I started reading.
If it's only been a couple days, then you really don't know what's going on.

Quote:
Plus, it's a perfect example of the unkindness, immaturity, and rage that I was talking about. Things like that need to be ended immediately, and not by booting someone permanately, throwing their reputation in the dirt, or in his case, chasing a member off, but by setteling it quietly, and kindly with a respected member who also shows respect.
It's been tried on several different occasions. Some people don't bother following logic and spout shit out without thinking.

Quote:
That's why this forum is not good at all.
Then leave?

Quote:
It needs at least some order, or it can either overflow with more of these types of people, cause real-world issues, or even get people arrested for things like 'cyber-bullying', or harassment of some sort. That wouldn't do well with the members, the admin, the forum, or the main site itself.
There's plenty of order here. Most of the people are calm and respectful of others. It's the few that come across as complete fuckwits that get flamed to hell because of bullshit that they have no idea of what they're talking about.

...Ok so I guess I did pick it apart more than expected. But oh well. I'm off to do some homework before my next class.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:30 PM   #417
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Actually, it was prejudice. The main antagonist for this was Human Rasengan. He tried a convoluted string of premises that essentially equated to "All Muslims are like those in Al Qaeda". This is totally not the case in any way, shape, or form. Most Muslims have denounced Al Qaeda and condemned the attacks as "Un-Islamic".
I said earlier that I only skimmed. I didn't read in full detail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Good thing it's not being built on Ground Zero, but 2 blocks away. For those that don't realize: in downtown New York City, 1 block basically equals 1 mile. On top of all of the buildings between the future community center and Ground Zero, kinda difficult for it to see the site (even with it being ~13 stories (I think)). It's the "OMG DERE BILDIN A MOSK NEER 9/11" mentality that makes people retards. America was built on religious freedom (all religions, not just the white people religions).
Can you send me a link with a good source on this subject with the exact location mentioned?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Um... how? It's a religious law, similar to the 10 Commandments, that is unique to Islam and Islam only. Non-Muslims don't have to follow it because they are not a part of the religion. Muslims aren't trying to push Sharia Law into the Constitution, it's for their observation only.
I'm basing my knowledge of this matter on what's been posted, so not all of it's accurate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
They wouldn't have even married if that was the case. If the entire family was Muslim, then the ENTIRE FAMILY would have to follow Sharia Law. Again, it's their GOD'S LAW. One person in the religion cannot be a part of that religion and go against God's Law.
Actually, that's where divorce comes in play, but because of their strict religious laws, it would once again show shame. Not everyone is born the way they want to be, and most of the things we learn were, in a way, forced into us from when being raised.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
He's the one that said that Al Qaeda would view this as a victory, even though it goes against the very thing they were trying to do with the attacks. He's the one that pointed out that Muslims all over the world were cheering for the attacks (when they weren't, most Muslims denounced the attacks). He's the one that tried to press the fact that "Al Qaeda = ALL Muslims" when they don't.
He never said anything about all muslims being Al Queda. If he did, I must've missed it, so point me in the right direction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
We brought logic and skepticism to the table. He brought prejudice and racism. How is misleading him?
Following up from the previous quote, plus: Racism has nothing to do with religion. Logic has nothing to do with arguing over who's manly, and umanly. That was just immaturity. I meant misleaded as in raging at him.


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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
If it's only been a couple days, then you really don't know what's going on.
I'll be honest. I seriously don't, but the first impression from this site is really bad.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
It's been tried on several different occasions. Some people don't bother following logic and spout shit out without thinking.
That goes back to what I said about misleading.


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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Then leave?
Just because I think a site isn't good doesn't mean I should leave or would want to. I was just throwing in some pointers to help it improve while I'm here. Nothing has to change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
There's plenty of order here. Most of the people are calm and respectful of others. It's the few that come across as complete fuckwits that get flamed to hell because of bullshit that they have no idea of what they're talking about.
It's still no reason to flame at them. Just ignore them, and believe what you want. Flamming on sites about subjects like religion, etc. is like having a fight, or war in real life. I'm sure if you all met each other in real life, someone would throw a fist, or pull a weapon out just over some bickering, which would most likely be the ones who believe they're manly, just to show that they're tough.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:04 PM   #418
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Wrong. They'll get plenty if they aren't a moron.
Stop lying to the newbie MAL
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:06 PM   #419
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

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Originally Posted by Daniel-San View Post
I said earlier that I only skimmed. I didn't read in full detail.
There are a lot of well thought out arguments both for and against the building of this community center, peppered with some idiocy. I was one of the first to post, stating my support of the building while stressing my beliefs (I'm an Atheist) wouldn't cause religious bias in my post.


Quote:
Can you send me a link with a good source on this subject with the exact location mentioned?
Did a quick search for it and the best I could come up with on short notice was this article. I picked it because the first image shows the building they're using in relation to Ground Zero. It also states that the site was chosen because a part of the WTC fell there when the towers collapsed.


Quote:
I'm basing my knowledge of this matter on what's been posted, so not all of it's accurate.
Most of it comes from a lack of knowledge. Most Muslims that observe Sharia Law have a modern interpretation for it, instead of the archaic version most extremists use.


Quote:
Actually, that's where divorce comes in play, but because of their strict religious laws, it would once again show shame. Not everyone is born the way they want to be, and most of the things we learn were, in a way, forced into us from when being raised.
You failed to get the point. If it's a Muslim family, everyone (including the wife) follow Sharia Law. It's their version of the 10 Commandments. It's Allah's word. If the wife didn't follow it, she wouldn't be considered Muslim. Muslims are pretty strict in family matters, also. The husband wouldn't marry the woman if she wouldn't follow Sharia Law.

As for divorce, depending on the viewpoint of the family it wouldn't cause as much shame as one would think. It would hurt the family's honor, yes, but most Muslims won't go into something like "honor killing" if they were in the states.


Quote:
He never said anything about all muslims being Al Queda. If he did, I must've missed it, so point me in the right direction.
I never said he did say it. His premises (as convoluted as they were) led up to it. He was saying that Al Qaeda would claim some form of victory for this community center being built, even though its construction goes against the very thing they were trying to do with the attacks (which was sew the seeds of dissent in America and allow for their radical form of Islam to take over). Al Qaeda doesn't want to co-exist with Western religions. They want their form of Islam to be the only religion.


Quote:
Following up from the previous quote, plus: Racism has nothing to do with religion. Logic has nothing to do with arguing over who's manly, and umanly. That was just immaturity. I meant misleaded as in raging at him.
It has everything to do with religion. Islam is originally an Arab religion. Those that caused the attacks were of Arab descent. Yes, there are more races converting to Islam, just as there are more races converting to Christianity and its branches.


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I'll be honest. I seriously don't, but the first impression from this site is really bad.
Like I said, most of the people on these forums are actually pretty mature. We have logical discussions sometimes, or we'll just talk about various shit (like the concerts I've gone to in the Narutard Chat Thread). Most of the time it's mature conversations, sometimes some mild flaming but that's usually in jest.



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Just because I think a site isn't good doesn't mean I should leave or would want to. I was just throwing in some pointers to help it improve while I'm here. Nothing has to change.
Site's been doing good before. Don't think anything will change while the current admins are running the show.


Quote:
It's still no reason to flame at them. Just ignore them, and believe what you want. Flamming on sites about subjects like religion, etc. is like having a fight, or war in real life.
...not really. It's just one of those "you try to see things my way" type arguments.

Quote:
I'm sure if you all met each other in real life, someone would throw a fist, or pull a weapon out just over some bickering, which would most likely be the ones who believe they're manly, just to show that they're tough.
The only people I can see doing something like this is Miburo (only if threatened) and Human Rasengan (but he'll puss out like he has in the past). Other than that, most of the people here get along fine and would probably be cool to hang out with outside of the site.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:43 PM   #420
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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

Alright, I'll go with most of what you're saying, but I do need to point out two things. The article you sent me mentions diversity. There has already been diversity ever since freedom of religion was implanted, so their argument is nonsense. On top of that, they already have several mosques across the US. You don't need one in every city. Not every city has a Christian church. As for the honor killing in the US, they're already happening. There is also a second honor killing here. These are just two of the biggest. Most of the others are either attempts or smaller stories.

And you did mention that Iyasu believed all Muslims were Al'Queda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
He's the one that tried to press the fact that "Al Qaeda = ALL Muslims" when they don't.
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Last edited by Daniel-San; 09-09-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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