Miburo

So since it was a human reaction to a problem, it is worthy of sympathy? Just trying to follow your train of thought here.

Now, bear in mind that every reaction is a human reaction, because we're talking about humans here.


Not wanting to go to jail is a very human reaction. But isn't worthy of pity?

Also, I made sure my analogy was as similar as possible, to avoid any misunderstanding (Like what was found with AMA's post.) The pedo wasn't doing anything illegal either. He also was doing no wrong. However, just like being gay, being caught as a someone who faps to kids can close many a door and whatnot. It's not really different, other than the fact that it's an analogy and not me copy and pasting exactly what happened.

You say you would need more facts before knowing whether or not he was deserving of pity, but you know exactly the same amount of facts about his mental state as you do the gay guy's. You don't know what gay dude was thinking anymore than you know the reason why fictional pedo guy would want to off himself. The gay dude didn't give any reason why he killed himself. He didn't leave a note other than "jumping off some bridge, sorry" in his facebook.

And I don't think anyone was implying that anyone deserves to be pushed off a bridge. No one was pushed off any bridge, and I think going to some therapy would have been better too. Which is why I think him jumping off a bridge was a stupid thing to do.

Jaxon

First, imaginary paedo was doing something illegal. He was in possession of child pornography, which is an offense just about anywhere. Unless you want to assume he was jerking off to thinking about kids in his head, which I'm sure you don't, because it makes no fucking sense whatsoever as part of this debate.

Therefore I do not pity him for not wanting to go to jail, because he's deliberately done something which is an offense liable to result in his incarceration. And neither would I pity him for killing himself in that situation, as I've stated.

Gay guy, definitely deserving of my pity because he did nothing wrong. Guy did nothing wrong, and killed himself. I dunno what the legal status on gay sex for that state is, and honestly, doesn't matter. I think it should be legal, and in my own country it is, so whatever.

Imaginary paedo, possibly deserving of pity, because even if he was doing something pretty fucked-up, and illegal, if he killed himself because he couldn't help doing that, rather than because of the punishment that would come his way for doing it, then the guy's obviously in a fragile mental state of immense personal tension, something I can be sympathetic to.

I guess this kinda boils down to how we judge stupidity. I agree with you, jumping off a bridge, pretty dumb thing to do. You don't think he should be judged sympathetically, but I think that anyone pushed to that level, after doing nothing wrong, can't be making rational decisions because some people just can't cope with that shit. Some of us can, and that's our benefit, not their defect.



Also, if I lived in New Jersey, shit, I'd probably kill myself too.

Shrike

Pity is also human reaction, so weather we experience it or not is not really up to a debate. It's just depends from person to person.

While someone might just say "Dumbass" for the gay guy, another person might feel pity and even recognize the situation as the thing he/she would have done if that were them.

Well, you get the point.

Nerox

Once more, I pay respects to the OH crew. You turned a retarded comment from confirmed!! into an interesting and intelligent discussion.

ask me anything

I was referring to the guy on the giving end, not the dude/child getting fucked. The gay guy stuffing his partners ass finds some sort of pleasure from it, and I imagine the pedophile stuffing some kids ass finds some perverse pleasure as well. So in that part it is similar.

agreed

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Miburo

I made sure to make it as analogous as possible. I'm not totally up to date on pedo law, but I doubt having pics of clothed kids at a beach or some shit is illegal. And I think we can both agree that it shouldn't be illegal either.

Gay guy deliberately did something that would cause him mental anguish of some sort if caught, presumably knowing full well that being caught is within the realm of possibility.

In other words, both people would be doing something that wouldn't want to be caught doing, and got caught. And then killed themselves instead of facing the consequences.


You've established that legality is pretty irrelevant already. Which works out great, since imaginary pedo guy wasn't doing anything illegal anyway...I think. And I'm pretty sure you're saying here that your criteria for pity is that one doesn't get it if he's killing himself to avoid "punishment."

But we don't know why gay guy actually killed himself. He might have real assholes for parents who will stop paying his tuition or some shit if they found out he was a butt-pirate. So he'd be avoiding the "punishment" of his parents there. We have no clue.

Besides, I'm sure anyone who kills himself, no matter what the reasoning is, is going through some sort of immense personal tension and probably is in some sort of fragile mental state as well. Because, come on, he's freakin' killing himself. Something not usually done under normal circumstances by well-adjusted, mentally strong individuals.

Oh, yeah, definitely agree with you. It's not that I don't feel at all bad for the dude. His situation sucked, definitely. And it also would suck hardcore to be a pussy. I just think on the "deserving of sympathy" scale, he's pretty low on the list compared to people that have actual horrible things happen to them and suffer and/or die from things that are actually beyond their control.


Word.

Agreed. I wasn't trying to imply that people aren't feeling pity and that they're just bullshitting, or whatever. And I'm not saying anyone is wrong to pity anyone either. That's totally fine.

Just when people discuss things with others, they tend to apply a logical reason for their stance. "I feel pity because...blah blah blah." Everyone does it. I don't have any problem with the emotion. I disagree with the logic used to explain it. Just like with everything. I'm totally cool with people's beliefs and feelings, even if I don't feel or believe the same way.


Edit: Also, if I'm pissing any OH guys off, then let me know. I only 'debate' this shit because usually I pretty much agree with everything most of you say. Since great minds think alike, etc. So when I disagree with something impersonal and kinda stupid I'm all like "fuck yeah!" because I get to discuss shit with actual intelligent people instead of belittling idiots for being outrageously stupid. But it's totally not worth it if you guys are like "GODDAMN fucking mibs, wut an annoying faggot!"

Jaxon

Oh shit, didn't read thoroughly enough and missed the bathing-suit detail. My slip.

Yeah, don't worry about ticking us by debating. I'd like to think having being a redname comes along with the Socrates-level wisdom of knowing you know nothing. I just don't usually debate because it involves immense amounts of typing to convince dumbfucks. But since this is pretty much just you, me and Shrike right now it's all special and fuzzy <3

Shrike

Word.

As Jax said, debating you guys is the best thing. I actually missed it. I hate when I miss a good debate where OH people are involved (I mostly miss it since I don't check dumb threads, which are usually the place where it happens).

You guys are the best people for debating <3

Edit: Now there is no point in arguing your post, since we totally agree. Too bad, in a sense =)

Miburo

I totally wouldn't jump off a bridge if someone webcam caught us all making-out. <3

ACt

You'd be the one running the webcam, no question.

For debating, to put in terms of simplicity: Internet grappling. It is welcomed to have a worthy foe from time to time.

A few points on the debate:

I think the pedo example can't be separated from law because of it's harshness. Child molesters are the first to go in prisons. Be dumb not to know that. However, if it was a regular porn that was deliberately making the girls look young (or you argued that was what you thought it was) is one way to look at it.

Other examples could be a late 30s man with a 18/19 year old. Legal, but the shame could still be seen to be there.

There's the Frank Ribery situation. For those who don't know, he's a ugly as fuck French soccer player who has been charged with sleeping with an underage prostitute. He claims he thought she was 20, or something. She was 16. She looks like this:

Is perception at the time of the act important? Surely the man in thread who killed himself thought it was fine in private, does publicity make the act or the disclosure wrong?

Finally, I would submit a more conservative case. Devout muslim boy is caught in bed with a devout muslim girl (replace with any hard version of religion). The family pressures could drive him to suicide. Any worse or better?

Overall, I earlier posted that he wasn't comfortable enough with himself to be be who he was publicly. In these cases, it is better not to do things that you aren't comfortable people knowing on some level.

Miburo

Fuck yeah, and fuck yeah. =D

My example was akin to fapping to a google image search where you type in "9 year old girl" or some shit. Nothing actually illegal. But definitely something people would probably give you a ton of shit for if they knew you did shit like that.

And I only used that because I thought maybe people were harping too much on the gay thing. I figured people would be all like "FUCKING PEDO RAWR" if the dude was fapping to pics of kids instead. I probably should have been extra ridiculous and stuck with the "Wut if he killed himself because people found out he was a narutard" thing.


I think killing yourself for any of those reasons makes you a pussy, personally. Except maybe the last one, assuming they're just going to stone the chick anyway. Choosing to end yourself instead of getting stoned to death by a bunch of douchebags is acceptable. But if they're not going to get stoned then they're just pussies. =D

For the french dude, that would suck, and shit like that shouldn't be illegal in my opinion. At least not hardcore rape illegal. It definitely shouldn't get you on the sex offender for lyfe list. That shit should be for actual rapists and dudes who diddle little kids and shit. Not dudes who have consenting, non-rape sex with jailbait that definitely looks old enough to bang.

Still shouldn't kill yourself though. Killing yourself is only cool if you do it like that dude from the newer Dawn of the Dead movie, where he blew himself up and took a fuckload of zombies with him, because he was fucked anyway. Changing "fucked anyway" to "sacrificing yourself to save your comrades/family/etc." is also acceptable. The "fucked anyway" category would also include being bit by a zombie and offing yourself before you join the legions of undead, or having a terminal illness or some shit too, I suppose. And I'd even allow seppuku to reclaim your honor type suicides as well. Pretty much anything else is pussy shit though.

100% agree.

Scientia

^ What if you're killing yourself because you have no reason to live anymore? Like, you're just crazy and bored as fuck? What do you think of that?

Nerox

In either case, there must be a deeply rooted depression bothering that person. Perhaps only subconsiously, but no one, who is completly healthy just kills himself.

Also if you are bored as fuck, and have no depression, wouldn't you just do shit like bungee-jumping, or other thrilling things, to get rid of the boredom? Which is also a psychological illness.

So what is your point?

LonelyNinja

That's fucking retarded is what it is. I've been bored as all Hell with my video games. So what did I do? I went out and bought a new one. If you're bored because you have nothing to do then do something new. Go running. Join a sparring gym. Pick up a Goddamn book (Atlas Shrugged, for example. Now, before my fellow red names become disappoint over Ayn Rand, let me explain: it is a long as fuck book, so in this case it'd give the person something to do for years to come). Study philosophy. There is no such thing as "no reason to live." It's called growing the fuck up and making a reason for yourself.

Everyone else (Read: Outer Heaven) already covered everything logically conceivable about this topic, so herpa derp derp.

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Marlboro

I didn't make a retarded post. My post seemed retarded because I didn't clarify it at first.

What I meant was, instead of killing himself, the guy should have dealt with it. People tend to be on edge after facing a situation like that, and commit suicide without giving much consideration to the consequences.

What about the guy that was fucking him? his image was destroyed just like the other guy..Why didn't he commit suicide? It's because he decided to fucking deal with it instead of taking his life.

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