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Old 10-11-2010, 09:47 PM   #46
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

I read this on the weekend. Very Sad.

I think the system is screwed. It's been happening for how long, and no prevention has taken place.
Bullying will never stop IMO. But I think something should be done to decrease the likeliness of it going to the extreme.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:58 PM   #47
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

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Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
I read this on the weekend. Very Sad.

I think the system is screwed. It's been happening for how long, and no prevention has taken place.
Bullying will never stop IMO. But I think something should be done to decrease the likeliness of it going to the extreme.
The system can't protect everyone. It's up to the person being bullied to stand up for themselves. So what if you get a few suspensions or w/e, I'd rather have that than not standing up for myself and expecting people to do it for me.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:02 PM   #48
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

The system can protect though. If that's possible, maybe more kids won't commit suicide.

There will always be kids that can't stand up for themselves and there will always be a system that can do something about it or even decrease it's effects.

Of course there will be those who can defend themselves and do something, but the majority aren't like that. People allow this to happen.

It looks like you allow bullying? Nah just kidding... But you get what I'm saying?
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:19 PM   #49
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

^You're a wuss.

All these kids could have stood up for themselves. People shouldn't expect people to solve all their problems for them all the time. That kind of mindset perpetuates weakness. Which is why these people kill themselves in the first place.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:21 PM   #50
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

So you allow death to happen because of Bullying?
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:22 PM   #51
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

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Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
The system can protect though. If that's possible, maybe more kids won't commit suicide.
It's their choice to commit suicide. It's their choice to stand up for themselves. It's not the system's, you can force someone to be brave, they have to do it themselves. The system can protect some but it won't protec everyone. You won't have a knight in shining armor for every conflict you get into.

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There will always be kids that can't stand up for themselves and there will always be a system that can do something about it or even decrease it's effects.
That's why they have to LEARN, it isn't hard since their schools weren't hardcore. The System can't protect everyone. This system only restricts them from defending themselves because they are worried about getting suspended over anything.

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Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
Of course there will be those who can defend themselves and do something, but the majority aren't like that. People allow this to happen.
They allowed it to happen, when they could've took on the bullies themselves. They allowed themselves to get picked on when they could've done something about.

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Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
It looks like you allow bullying? Nah just kidding... But you get what I'm saying?
I get what you're saying but I'm telling you the system isn't going to protect everyone, that's just impossible.

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Old 10-11-2010, 10:26 PM   #52
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

Whatever you guys are overrated.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:43 PM   #53
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

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So you allow death to happen because of Bullying?
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST

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Old 10-11-2010, 10:43 PM   #54
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

Remove that annoying sig. You are obviously butthurt. At least reduce the size.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:20 AM   #55
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

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Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
So you allow death to happen because of Bullying?
No one died because of bullying. They died because they killed themselves. You cannot show any causation. Because there isn't any.

For example, a guy who used to ride my bus back in middle school killed himself a little while back. He got a flat tire on his way home, told his brother he just can't take this shit anymore, took a handgun out of the glovebox, and shot himself in the head. No lie. Would you say that death happened because of a flat tire? You might, because you're obviously stupid, but you'd be wrong. That flat tire didn't kill that dude. Same exact thing with bullying. It doesn't kill people either.

Not sure why so many people have such a hard time with simple as fuck logic. Goddamn.

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SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST

ONLY THOSE DESERVING
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Also, THIS.
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:44 AM   #56
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
I read this on the weekend. Very Sad.

I think the system is screwed. It's been happening for how long, and no prevention has taken place.
Bullying will never stop IMO. But I think something should be done to decrease the likeliness of it going to the extreme.
Why does people have to blame the system? Those teacher or parents should not blame the system, but blame themselves. They see the sign but didnt act, they raise their kid to be too nice so when the kid step on an ant it wont die, because he's very nice. Nice is good. But too nice so people can take advantage of you? Those adults should realize life isnt sunshine and rainbow, being nice must have a limit, people push you beyond it, you push back.
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:17 AM   #57
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

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Originally Posted by Loh' View Post
The system can protect though. If that's possible, maybe more kids won't commit suicide.
The system isn't broken kids just have it too easy now. I had it too easy growing up. Most kids people in the past 20 years had it pretty easy growing up myself included. In order to grow into a strong individual you need hard times in your life. If you're raised in an environment where everything is milk and honey and don't have to work for anything, you are more than likely going to grow up to be a weak individual. Like Mal said survival of the fittest.


Quote:
There will always be kids that can't stand up for themselves and there will always be a system that can do something about it or even decrease it's effects.
That system is parenting. The parents of the bullies should teach there kids not to be pricks and that there are consequences to actions. Also the parents of the kids being bullied should raise there kids to be stronger individuals. Kids are also free thinking human beings like the rest of us and can't always be controlled but they can be guided in the right direction. Yeah the schools are responsible for teaching kids and getting them ready for the real world but the main people who impact kids are the parents.


Quote:
Of course there will be those who can defend themselves and do something, but the majority aren't like that. People allow this to happen.
People allow this to happen because they can't or aren't willing to do anything about it. The other kids in school aren't going to do anything cause it doesn't concern them or they don't want to ruin their social status by taking up for some kid who might be considered a loser. The teachers aren't going to anything cause there is nothing they can do besides call their parents, detention or suspension. Calling the parents isn't going to do anything cause the parents did an excellent job molding their child into some prick who picks on other kids. Detention just puts them in the schools hands for longer time than they want. Suspension causes a risk of the bully failing the class due to missing too many days and repeating it next semester/year causing the teacher to deal with the kid even more. So the teachers become seriously apathetic towards situations involving discipline.

Quote:
It looks like you allow bullying? Nah just kidding... But you get what I'm saying?
Survival of the fittest is what it boils down to. We as humans might be above animals but we still have a pack mentality. Our friends and family are our packs. We look out for them support them and help them grow. In schools there are social crowds that act just like packs. These bullies raise their social stance by picking on a weaker individual and showing dominance much like the fight for an alpha position an a pack of animals. Sometimes in nature the weaker one dies but it doesn't die because it gave up it dies because it fought and died. The animal should have been stronger.This can be applied to humans as well. The person being bullied should be stronger. Physically stronger or stronger at will being able to walk away from a situation and take it with a grain of salt or beating the shit out of the bully.
Parents shouldn't raise their kids to be weaklings and should teach their kids respect. And kids should work harder to be strong willed individuals. We have free will we should use it to make our selves into something and not just give up.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:47 AM   #58
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

I think I'll ignore the "survival of the fittest" bits because it'll only breakdown into biological quibbles. But I do have a few thoughts based on this:

A) It is easy to place blame on the school for not controlling their environment like they are trained to do, but the bigger issue is the total evisceration of school authority. You can suspend, you can detain but overall there is very little teachers and administrators can do these days to control and shape children. Often, even being caught and punish only invokes anger in a "bully" and will lead to harsher treatment towards other students. There is no respect for authority in the school systems these days because teachers can't treat students as anything more than little, coddled lumps of sweetness and potential. You can't even tell them to man up because that would insensitive. What is left is minor shows of punishment and the message to "endure". It is completely left up to the kids who see no authority at home for the most part and we're raising a bunch of Lord of the Flies children.

Respect needs to be brought back into it. When it has gotten to the point where a male teacher cannot comment on the actions of a female student for the fear of sexual harassment, it has gone to far. Teachers are not seen as authority so they cannot control. It is bad enough to make me think that harsher punishments and more latitude is needed for effective school environments. I'm not above the idea of bringing back physical punishments either.

Just a further example, there is a story kicking around about a girl who was being constantly picked on during bus rides home - I think it got as far as people trying to stretch codom's over her head. One evening, her father, who had enough, got on the bus and reamed out the kids for being the little shits that they are. He is now being sued for traumatizing the bullies. This is what we have as a society.

B) Suing is the stupidest decision. Oh, lets go get money and cripple the school system more. Fuck - go after the parents of the bullies if you want money. In fact, why didn't anyone go after the families of the bullies sooner? Get it out there. Go public. Deal with it as a family. A little support is probably what the girl needed. Far too late to be suing after the fact.

C) Violence isn't always the answer. Manning up means little in some cases. I was a good example of that - I was small as shit until I was about 15. Yeah, I got picked on. One kid even tossed me over two desks in front of the teacher. I couldn't have even begun to man up - I would have been kicked apart more (perhaps that was a message beaten into me by my four year older brother who was perhaps the worst bully I had). I endured due to my family connects, the few friends I had and generally being smarter than anyone else in my class and fairly open with my knowledge. It got hard for kids to pick on me too much if they later wanted help with math. There are many ways around bullying, but support works best and the one overlying theme in the story above is the lack of support this girl felt or even received.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:32 PM   #59
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

It's getting worse every generation. In some societies, the kindergarten is fucked up as well. Teachers/parents being sued. It's starting to happen where I live.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:00 PM   #60
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Re: Bullying leads teens to suicide in an Ohio school

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C) Violence isn't always the answer. Manning up means little in some cases. I was a good example of that - I was small as shit until I was about 15. Yeah, I got picked on. One kid even tossed me over two desks in front of the teacher. I couldn't have even begun to man up - I would have been kicked apart more (perhaps that was a message beaten into me by my four year older brother who was perhaps the worst bully I had). I endured due to my family connects, the few friends I had and generally being smarter than anyone else in my class and fairly open with my knowledge. It got hard for kids to pick on me too much if they later wanted help with math. There are many ways around bullying, but support works best and the one overlying theme in the story above is the lack of support this girl felt or even received.
First off, agree fully with your A and B. I also see the merits in your C here. If it's painfully obvious that you have no chance at all at causing any sort of damage, and will likely end up being seriously injured, then super awesome manly violence isn't really the answer in that specific situation. Mostly because you're not good at it though. Not because violence sucks, of course. ; )

But in these articles here, fighting back would have most likely worked out just fine. Girl vs. Girl is always going to be pretty even since it's not the massive warthog chicks that make fun of other people for how they look. It's the skinny hawt chicks that do that. And none of the dudes were picked on for being tiny, it seems, and the school is obviously puss-city. So they'd probably still get their asses kicked, but not that bad. The point in fighting back there would be to greatly escalate the situation, forcing the school and the bully's parents to do something about it (Since if the same couple of kids are constantly fighting and getting suspended and shit, parents are going to be pissed as fuck. Remember, this is well-off suburban school. Not inner city ghetto school.). All in a non-shameful way. You're not running for help from others. You're fighting yourself, and others are taking notice and intervening without you asking. The bullies won't get more pissed because your a tattling puss. They'll see they're getting in trouble and realize it's not worth it.

Also, this might be just me, but I can't even imagine taking shit from other people to that degree. I mean, people flip out at me when I work in retail. But I just think that is hilarious most of the time. So I was cool with that. But if some dude kept belittling me and giving me shit daily, then I'd fight him. I don't care if it's Brock Lesnar or mother fucking FEDOR, and I'm definitely going to get my shit ruined, hard. I'd rather that then just take it. Admittedly, that isn't the best course of action if I have any concern about my physical well-being. But the people that are killing themselves over that shit obviously don't have any concern about their physical well-being. So I can't see the point in not fighting in their situations. They really have nothing to lose.
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