Tmoore

what your not realizing is naruto is an uzumaki it has been commented on by multiple people including his own mother that they do not have a natural talent for ninjutsu. they specialize in seals. that is why jiraiya taught naruto the rasengan because it was the perfect jutsu for him considering it doesnt require handseals. saying that the 2.5 years with jman was a waste cannot be correct because in that time he gave naruto structure to his fighting style as to in part 1 naruto was pretty much wasting chakra on shadow clones his part 2 style clearly shows that is no longer the case. now to put it clearly the best teacher naruto had is himself. he learned the shadow clone jutsu by himself. sexy jutsu by himself. rasengan jman showed him the basics but the rest naruto did himself. perfected rasenshuriken in sage mode and sustaining sage mode without fukasaku and his wife by himself.

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The Special One

The way the story progressed made it appear as though Naruto had little to offer after the time skip. I mean, I think it was pretty fair to say that Jiraiya spent most of the time teaching Naruto how to become a better host. Taking into consideration that Naruto was forbidden to use the Kyuubi's chakra for about most of the manga, Naruto came off as inexperienced until he learned Rasen Shuriken, Sage Mode, and finally, went back to unlocking his Bijuu mastery.

Kishi should have wrote a better script for Naruto... Maybe not have imposed such a risk to use the Kyuubi's chakra earlier on or have had the 2 and a half year time skip to have focussed on something more prevalent than just using the Kyuubi's chakra. I mean, throughout the whole part 2 Naruto is constantly playing catch-up (training). Sasuke refined most of his abilities during the time skipped and honed new ones through facing enemies. Naruto has one solo bout... And then readers have to sit through months on in of training sessions...

edit:

Was it ever stated that the Uzumaki sucked at ninjutsu? Seal specialization is just a trademark for them like shadow manipulation is a trademark of the Nara clan. Naruto never grew up being an Uzumaki, so he knew nothing of their signatures. Naruto sucked at chakra control because the Kyuubi's chakra would mix in with his own, increasing its pool but also making it a hassle for him to control due to him not having the proper ability to handle all of that chakra at once.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-95-8/n...hapter-90.html

However, Naruto has gotten use to using the Kyuubi's chakra, there's no reason why he couldn't learn as many chakra expansive jutsu as possible. I don't know if that has something to do on Naruto's work ethic or Jiraiya's laziness or due to just Kishi not utilizing his main character's talents well enough (it's most likely this one due to the fact that well, it all boils down to Kishi's reasoning for why Naruto basis all of his technique off one jutsu).

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^My first thread.lol

Tmoore

u obviously do not read during the 3 sannin fight orochimaru states naruto has no talent for ninjutsu, kushina even states that she was no good at jutsu and she hopes he practices his before she dies. reading is one thing comprehending what u read is on a whole different level

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kael03

Like TSO said, it was never stated that the Uzumaki sucked at ninjutsu. The only thing Kushina commented regarding the Uzumaki is that they specialized in seals to the extent that the village was wiped out and that she and Mito had strong chakra even for the Uzumaki. She never said anything about them sucking at ninjutsu being the reason they specialized in fuinjutsu.

Or it's because Jiraiya knew that Naruto was too stupid to grasp the concept of a jutsu that rivaled chidori and used handsigns.


Except Jiraiya never once taught Naruto anything but Rasengan variants. He knew the Rasengan was incomplete and did nothing to show Naruto how to use elemental chakra. Kakashi did that instead. A real teacher would've worked on efficiently using the kyuubi chakra blending with Naruto's own chakra as well as expand his knowledge of jutsus beyond Kage Bushin and Rasengan variants.

You mean the harem jutsu that has little effect beyond comedic value? Sexy no jutsu is just Naruto being an immature brat trying to get people's attention. It's nothing to be proud of.

And the moron still needs to use shadow clones to form the Rasengan, even after 2 and a half years with Jiraiya.

See above. If he had perfected it, he wouldn't have to use shadow clones that could be otherwise used to gather more Natural chakra to further extend Sage mode. Hell, he could use the clones to do their own Rasenshurikens if he had perfected the move to where he could form it unassisted.

The one thing the idiot got right was a way to keep sage mode when the frogs couldn't fuse with him.

Ok, so using 2 examples of an entire clan = the entire clan? The hell kind of sampling is that? That's like saying all Namikaze are genius because Minato is a genius.

Tmoore

i laugh at your post u do realize that even nagato one of the strongest uzumaki we have seen so far even with the rinnegan still didnt show any jutsu that required more than one handseal.granted i may be wrong but until then im going with they are not talented in ninjutsu. doesnt mean they cant use it just saying i have not seen anything to prove otherwise

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kael03

Because you're a burnt out idiot, apparently.

Considering the only time we saw him use anything beyond the Six Paths and summoning Gedo Mazo (which required more than one handseal) was him using a Suiton during the Konan death flashback...your example is flawed.

You are wrong, logically. As long lived as they are (Mito living 4 generations to give Kushina the Kyuubi), you don't think the Uzumaki would focus on more than just seals?

So you're using a hasty generalization to claim the Uzumaki can't use ninjutsu? Or do you want to go with "arguing from ignorance" as the fallacy of choice?

Tmoore

yet u still didnt show him using more than one handseal.. u sir fail

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kuzuryusen

You do realize Jiraiya mentions during his fight with Pain that Nagato mastered any ninjutsu jiraiya taught him including all 6 elements and is confused why pain was only using summons. (i dunno if he truly means there are 6 or if its a bad translation and they mean 5) But im pretty sure Nagato could use ninjutsu quite effectively especially when he uses a windstyle technique on jiraya's clone which he may only have 1 hand seal up at the time but it looks like a wind version of a fire style which only uses 1 hand up to your mouth after the previous seals and even so he may have only needed 1 hand to perform that ninjutsu or all of them he did have the rinnengan. Of course its hard to say if its because of the Rinnengan that he was able to master these ninjutsu, but him using only a few jutsu which require no or few seals i think is only because of syncing with the gedo mazu. Before hand when he was in the original akatsuki im sure he was whipping ninjutsu everywhere. I believe his powers turning into what they were are undoubtedly due to the link with the statue.

Nagato isnt a good uzumaki representative. Hes the technical 3rd path of the 6 paths (according to madara) meaning he was probably quite a bit more then a normal uzumaki.

kushina didnt say the uzumaki clan was bad at ninjutsu she says she is personally bad at them http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c504/11.html

Honestly i do agree with those saying kishi didnt develop naruto enough. When it comes down to it he has a pitiful amount of ninjutsu. He had Jiraiya train him for 2.5 years and then kakashi revealed his elemental nature and a disgustingly OP training technique and all we get was a rasengan mutation. All i can see now with Naruto gaining the kyuubis power is more speed, physical strength, and the bijuu bomb (rasengan jinchuuriki style.) All in all a shinobi who still couldn't be on the level of Uchiha Madara.

Now if kishi suddenly gives naruto super powers and makes him good at everything since hes now basically in line to be called the 4th path of Rikkudo. I would truly be angry. Kishi has wasted so much time showing leaps of power on only a select few areas of naruto.

The deal about the sages i believe will come up in the end. Harishama was the 1st madara the 2nd nagato the 3rd naruto the 4th Sasuke the 5th and i have a feeling either the powers combined of all of them or some random character we havent met yet is the 6th The evidence kishi has placed throughout this manga suggests to me that the sage will fully be explained in the end or some trick will make naruto the reincarnation of the sage himself.

And finally I believe itachi and nagato are probably strong enough to do as they please right now without kabuto fully controlling them so they could encounter naruto and be used as bridges to give naruto some epic power.
But in the end i think Nagato and Itachi's true purpose is to Use a truly full powered Izanagi during the revival of the jyuubi to either A steal it for Kabutos own personal agenda Or B cause a ridiculous turn of events and have the Jyuubi up for grabs.

kael03

You're still arguing from ignorance, a major logical fallacy. Absence of proof is not proof, professor. You were the one claiming ridiculous notions of the entire uzumaki clan being bad at ninjutsu when there are only 2 specific members being noted as having no talent. Burden of proof of this claim falls on you before proof of my counterargument.

Like the guy above me pointed out, before Nagato became the crypt keeper Jiraiya said he mastered every jutsu he was shown from every element (thanks to the Rinnegan), $10 says most of those require more than one handseal. Therefore, you fail on an epic level. Hell, summoning the Gedo Mazo requires more than one hand seal (I would post the page but I'm on my ipod and about to go to sleep).

platinumrug

Tmoore, just stop. Please.

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DRAGONBPY

As far as I remember. When Nagato summoned Gedo Mazo, he did use more than 1 hand seal. So Kael03 argument is correct

itachikillsnaruto

zetsu is gettin more and more panels, these next couple of chapters will more then likly focus on zetsu's background.

zetsu's skill/techniques all focus on a melicular level, being able to make clones/exact replicas right down to chakra levels is an awesome skill.

this technique is gonna play a major role in the next couple of chapters and i think its gonna lead to naruto and bee, fighting the entire zetsu akatsuki, and some leaf/cloud nins.

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blake

when oro said that about naruto it was just a general statement. If jiraiya had actually taken the time to tech naruto ninjustsu, he would be good at it. It just takes an actual teacher. Sasuke had that in Itachi and his father before kakashi came along. The only time naruto had a "real" teacher was when Kakashi took time to show him the value of shadow clone training and his nature manipulation. All jiraiya would do it show naruto the rasengan once and say figure it out, whereas that may work with somebody like sasuke, it took naruto multiple viwings and further explanation to figure it out. going by his personality, he needs things to be spoon fed to him. Hes not a natural learner.

Im not sure what Tmoore is talking about, just because somebody excels at something doesnt mean they are bad at everything else

itachikillsnaruto

u do realize naruto is an idiot when it comes to learning right. if it wasnt for him learning the shadow clone techinque which is jonin level if im not mistaken, naruto wouldnt be shit. he only learned the rasengan and his other techs with the shadow clone as a base. naruto has had the easiest training regime by far, sasuke had teachers yes only because it was expect that sasuke would be as good and as talented as his older brother itachi. no gave a damn about naruto lol, so he got no instruction in ninjutsu, he taught himself. when he learned the shadow clone tech everything else just fell into place.

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blake

oh I dont doubt that. All I said was that he needed the right teacher that would take time to actually train him and he wouldve been alot stronger than he was at the beginning of part 2.