Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard

ACt · 06-08-2011, 10:14 AM

Since we've had a few short discussions of personal freedoms and the like, I give you this gem:

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/jilted-ex...194142831.html

Quote:

ALAMOGORDO, N.M. (AP) — A New Mexico man's decision to lash out with a billboard ad saying his ex-girlfriend had an abortion against his wishes has touched off a legal debate over free speech and privacy rights.

The sign on Alamogordo's main thoroughfare shows 35-year-old Greg Fultz holding the outline of an infant. The text reads, "This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child!"

Fultz's ex-girlfriend has taken him to court for harassment and violation of privacy. A domestic court official has recommended the billboard be removed.

But Fultz's attorney argues the order violates his client's free speech rights.

"As distasteful and offensive as the sign may be to some, for over 200 years in this country the First Amendment protects distasteful and offensive speech," Todd Holmes said.

The woman's friends say she had a miscarriage, not an abortion, according to a report in the Albuquerque Journal.

Holmes disputes that, saying his case is based on the accuracy of his client's statement.

"My argument is: What Fultz said is the truth," Holmes said.

The woman's lawyer said she had not discussed the pregnancy with her client. But for Ellen Jessen, whether her client had a miscarriage or an abortion is not the point. The central issue is her client's privacy and the fact that the billboard has caused severe emotional distress, Jessen said.

"Her private life is not a matter of public interest," she told the Alamogordo Daily News.

Jessen says her client's ex-boyfriend has crossed the line.

"Nobody is stopping him from talking about father's rights. ... but a person can't invade someone's private life."

For his part, Holmes invoked the U.S. Supreme Court decision from earlier this year concerning the Westboro Baptist Church, which is known for its anti-gay protests at military funerals and other high-profile events. He believes the high court's decision to allow the protests, as hurtful as they are, is grounds for his client to put up the abortion billboard.

"Very unpopular offensive speech," he told the Alamogordo Daily News. "The Supreme Court, in an 8 to 1 decision, said that is protected speech."

Holmes says he is going to fight the order to remove the billboard through a District Court appeal.

OK, ignoring the abortion debate entirely (because she may have just miscarried and the general breakdown will be the "it's wrong" and "it's her choice" and that's a lame discussion these days) and that fact that the fat ugly guy who did this with the Pro-Lifers is an utter douche and should learn to deal, is what he has done within his rights or a violation of his exes rights - or both?

Although he didn't use her name, anyone who knows him probably knows who the woman is, which should be enough to violate her right to privacy and I would argue could be a case of libel - particularly if it wasn't an abortion in the first place, even though it makes me wonder how this man could be that stupid... perhaps it was an induced early delivery due to complications that was killing the child anyway, who knows.

Seems overly suspect and in the end is a good lesson to know the person you are having sex with, just in case. Also, archaic man opinion of having any rights over a woman's body, but it is New Mexico... who knows what they believe down there.

stubborn_d0nkey · 06-08-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkamaruChewtoy

Although he didn't use her name, anyone who knows him probably knows who the woman is, which should be enough to violate her right to privacy and I would argue could be a case of libel - particularly if it wasn't an abortion in the first place, even though it makes me wonder how this man could be that stupid... perhaps it was an induced early delivery due to complications that was killing the child anyway, who knows.

To add to the bolded, anybody who knows him well enough to know her and care about whats going on in her life probably already knows about the pregnancy and abortion and shit

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkamaruChewtoy

archaic man opinion of having any rights over a woman's body

I thought you said you didnt want an abortion debate, yet you add this.

ACt · 06-08-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubborn_d0nkey

I thought you said you didnt want an abortion debate, yet you add this.

Slightly different in my mind. The billboard isn't bringing up just the "right or wrong" argument of abortion, but by publicly stating that it happen, he is announcing that the pregnancy was part his, i.e. rights over the woman's body because he put his semen in there. I would bring up the same thing about men who advertise pregnancy with "we're pregnant". She was pregnant, all decisions about it are hers, including publicity of it. This billboard seems to announce that he had say on it. A much broader topic than abortion.

stubborn_d0nkey · 06-08-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkamaruChewtoy

Slightly different in my mind. The billboard isn't bringing up just the "right or wrong" argument of abortion, but by publicly stating that it happen, he is announcing that the pregnancy was part his, i.e. rights over the woman's body because he put his semen in there. I would bring up the same thing about men who advertise pregnancy with "we're pregnant". She was pregnant, all decisions about it are hers, including publicity of it. This billboard seems to announce that he had say on it. A much broader topic than abortion.

Well, for me "is abortion right or wrong" isn't the exclusive topic that would be called an abortion debate. It seems that you give it exclusivity, since however you word it, it pretty much boils down to whether or not the future husband has a say in stopping an abortion. That would be the abortion issue/debate concerning this article, not if its right or wrond

ask me anything · 06-08-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

For his part, Holmes invoked the U.S. Supreme Court decision from earlier this year concerning the Westboro Baptist Church, which is known for its anti-gay protests at military funerals and other high-profile events. He believes the high court's decision to allow the protests, as hurtful as they are, is grounds for his client to put up the abortion billboard.

I just knew that case would have long lasting implications. As pathetic as it is protesting at funerals, I'd say this is worse. This guy is a hardcore douche.

There has to be some way to find the truth behind the matter. If it really was an abortion, she must have went to a clinic or hospital to have it done. Dude should have done a little research, and asked around before just assuming shit. What if she really did have a miscarriage? That would make this guy a super douche.

**Miburo** · 06-08-2011, 04:25 PM

Could argue it's libel since she didn't kill anything no matter what. She definitely didn't kill a child, even if you view it from a retarded anti-freedom point of view. A doctor did a medical procedure. Even if you believe something was killed, then the doctor was the one who did it. Not her. Though, without naming her or posting her picture or anything that argument would be iffy at best.

The dude's lawyer is an idiot with the "He's being truthful" argument. A better argument would be that he was promoting father rights or it was some anti-freedom ad or some shit. That's what I would assume if I saw a billboard like that anyway. Not that the dude on the billboard was being literal, because holy shit that's extra ridiculous hardcore douchey.

So on the issue of rights, so long as he isn't violating the law (libel, in this case) then he should be able to say whatever he wants. If he had something entirely truthful put on a billboard then that would be fine. The only other thing that would play a factor is the legality of sharing personal information with the public. I would assume there must be some law that prevents someone from sharing medical information, or other sensitive personal info without the consent of whoever the personal information belongs to. For example, you probably can't share someone's social security card info just because you obtained it by some means. I dunno what that would be though, I'd have to look into it. Still, that isn't really relevant since one could argue that he wasn't specific enough for it to matter. For all anyone knows he's talking about some chick he was dating on the side or raped at a party or whatever. He should be in the clear here, legally. Which is fine, he's only really showing everyone how much of a massive pile of shit he is as a person anyway.

Nerox · 06-08-2011, 06:39 PM

Haven't read all the arguments, I am a little lazy right now, but in german law, there is a clear principle on personal rights: Ones personal freedom ends, when it invades the personal freedom of another. Clearly this ad is a violation against the womans privacy, and should therefore be removed.

Also, goddamn christian fundamentalists...

EphemeralStar · 06-09-2011, 10:50 AM

I didn't really know about "father rights" in a case like this. :O Weird... but makes sense.
But the guy is a prick. He took things too far and should get his assed dumped. Who does that to their girlfriend? o_O

ninjalostboy95 · 06-09-2011, 11:31 AM

Why would he say she had an abortion with no proof of it to show? The lack of evidence is what makes his lawyer stupid for saying "He's speaking the truth" In my opinion. Don't they have a medical record if it was an abortion or not? If not then this case should be dismissed because it's hard to fight against something the First Amendment protects. If she wins good, but I don't think she will.

kael03 · 06-09-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95

Why would he say she had an abortion with no proof of it to show?

Because he's hurt for them no longer being together, obviously.

Quote:

The lack of evidence is what makes his lawyer stupid for saying "He's speaking the truth" In my opinion. Don't they have a medical record if it was an abortion or not?

If she did have an abortion, her medical records are private between her and her doctor. He would have no legal way to access them outside of her giving permission or a warrant, which he has nothing to use to get a warrant.

Quote:

If not then this case should be dismissed because it's hard to fight against something the First Amendment protects. If she wins good, but I don't think she will.

Chances are it will be dismissed and the city will be forced to take the billboard down. As the billboard doesn't contain her name or image, she doesn't have a case for harassment or libel. The only thing she could use is emotional distress suffered while the billboard is up.

**Miburo** · 06-09-2011, 07:43 PM

If this was the whole story, they he'd be fine. Not harassment, not libel, not a violation of privacy.

But looking into it a bit, seems like this isn't the whole story at all. The billboard originally had a thing at the bottom that said "Created for N.A.N.I." which stands for the National Association for Needed Information or some shit. It's an organization he made up himself. Which also happens to be his ex-girlfriend's name (Nani). He changed it after the charges were made against him.

It was also said at numerous different sites that she was only 18, possibly younger at the start of their relationship. Also appears like he has previous history of harassing her. Which will fuck him in court if true. She was also granted a restraining order on him. He supposedly has a twitter account where he posted crazy shit about shooting ex's and shit. But I don't care enough to verify that shit by actually going to the twitter website, because fuck twitter.

Edit:

Here is a link where you can see some of his tweets:

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.a...81474979425006

Holy shit, this guy.

kluang · 06-11-2011, 08:36 AM

Sounds like two face and poison ivy relationshup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh8qgKoWKAA

06-08-2011, 04:25 PM	#6
Miburo Deos Fortioribus Adesse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Valhalla Posts: 3,543 Thanks: 34,417 Thanked 17,643 Times in 5,442 Posts	Re: Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard Could argue it's libel since she didn't kill anything no matter what. She definitely didn't kill a child, even if you view it from a retarded anti-freedom point of view. A doctor did a medical procedure. Even if you believe something was killed, then the doctor was the one who did it. Not her. Though, without naming her or posting her picture or anything that argument would be iffy at best. The dude's lawyer is an idiot with the "He's being truthful" argument. A better argument would be that he was promoting father rights or it was some anti-freedom ad or some shit. That's what I would assume if I saw a billboard like that anyway. Not that the dude on the billboard was being literal, because holy shit that's extra ridiculous hardcore douchey. So on the issue of rights, so long as he isn't violating the law (libel, in this case) then he should be able to say whatever he wants. If he had something entirely truthful put on a billboard then that would be fine. The only other thing that would play a factor is the legality of sharing personal information with the public. I would assume there must be some law that prevents someone from sharing medical information, or other sensitive personal info without the consent of whoever the personal information belongs to. For example, you probably can't share someone's social security card info just because you obtained it by some means. I dunno what that would be though, I'd have to look into it. Still, that isn't really relevant since one could argue that he wasn't specific enough for it to matter. For all anyone knows he's talking about some chick he was dating on the side or raped at a party or whatever. He should be in the clear here, legally. Which is fine, he's only really showing everyone how much of a massive pile of shit he is as a person anyway.

06-08-2011, 06:39 PM	#7
Nerox Mah'alleinir Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Golden Hall Posts: 743 Thanks: 2,254 Thanked 2,671 Times in 1,262 Posts	Re: Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard Haven't read all the arguments, I am a little lazy right now, but in german law, there is a clear principle on personal rights: Ones personal freedom ends, when it invades the personal freedom of another. Clearly this ad is a violation against the womans privacy, and should therefore be removed. Also, goddamn christian fundamentalists...

06-09-2011, 10:50 AM	#8
EphemeralStar Genin Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 64 Thanks: 127 Thanked 166 Times in 80 Posts	Re: Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard I didn't really know about "father rights" in a case like this. :O Weird... but makes sense. But the guy is a prick. He took things too far and should get his assed dumped. Who does that to their girlfriend? o_O __________________ http://z13.invisionfree.com/anime_all_the_way

06-09-2011, 11:31 AM	#9
ninjalostboy95 Osu! = the best game ever Join Date: May 2010 Location: NY, Far Rockaway(currently) Age: 17 Posts: 5,772 Thanks: 8,239 Thanked 4,587 Times in 2,795 Posts	Re: Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard Why would he say she had an abortion with no proof of it to show? The lack of evidence is what makes his lawyer stupid for saying "He's speaking the truth" In my opinion. Don't they have a medical record if it was an abortion or not? If not then this case should be dismissed because it's hard to fight against something the First Amendment protects. If she wins good, but I don't think she will.

06-09-2011, 07:43 PM	#11
Miburo Deos Fortioribus Adesse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Valhalla Posts: 3,543 Thanks: 34,417 Thanked 17,643 Times in 5,442 Posts	Re: Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard If this was the whole story, they he'd be fine. Not harassment, not libel, not a violation of privacy. But looking into it a bit, seems like this isn't the whole story at all. The billboard originally had a thing at the bottom that said "Created for N.A.N.I." which stands for the National Association for Needed Information or some shit. It's an organization he made up himself. Which also happens to be his ex-girlfriend's name (Nani). He changed it after the charges were made against him. It was also said at numerous different sites that she was only 18, possibly younger at the start of their relationship. Also appears like he has previous history of harassing her. Which will fuck him in court if true. She was also granted a restraining order on him. He supposedly has a twitter account where he posted crazy shit about shooting ex's and shit. But I don't care enough to verify that shit by actually going to the twitter website, because fuck twitter. Edit: Here is a link where you can see some of his tweets: http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.a...81474979425006 Holy shit, this guy.

06-11-2011, 08:36 AM	#12
kluang One Punch Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,420 Thanks: 3,186 Thanked 4,669 Times in 2,102 Posts	Re: Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard Sounds like two face and poison ivy relationshup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh8qgKoWKAA __________________ To err is human, to forgive, divine. Humans aren't machines... they have souls, feelings. They live, they die, they love, they hate... And yes, they even make mistakes..... When kluang finds you creepy and wrong then you are beyond horrible. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Being Malaysian is about driving in a German car to an Indian restaurant for an Indonesian food, then travelling home, grabbing a Pakistani kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV. Because we have no originality.

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