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View Poll Results: good or evil?
Good 0 0%
Evil 15 34.88%
Neutral 28 65.12%
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Old 10-19-2005, 11:05 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAztek
An evil action does not make one evil. Would you consider Mother Teresa to have been evil? No? Well guess what!? When she was a teenager, she probably masturbated! Oh noesch! A sin against the Catholic Church! An evil act! She must be evil! Oh wait... It's Mother Teresa.

I'm sure that you've committed "evil acts," but I hardly consider you evil. Because of that, you're not evil... To me. (Wakka wakka. We can go around in circles.)
we are going around in circles -.- it's getting annoying =T mmkay so I think wat I think, you think what you think. Other ppl think what other ppl think, and I suppose we can't really change that =T Still point out though, that without humans the world would be a much better place.

Yes ppl are stupid.
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Old 10-19-2005, 11:57 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightDreamer
we are going around in circles -.- it's getting annoying =T mmkay so I think wat I think, you think what you think. Other ppl think what other ppl think, and I suppose we can't really change that =T Still point out though, that without humans the world would be a much better place.

Yes ppl are stupid.
if humans didn't exsist some other spechies would climb to the top of the ladder and be just as bad, the side affect of free choice is the choice to make bad choices, humans are just a good target.
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Old 10-19-2005, 01:31 PM   #78
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There isn't any human who is totally evil, or totally good. You can find something good and evil about everybody. Thats why I think humans are neutral.
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Old 10-19-2005, 08:59 PM   #79
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if humans didn't exsist some other spechies would climb to the top of the ladder and be just as bad, the side affect of free choice is the choice to make bad choices, humans are just a good target.
What's wrong with another species climbing to the top of the ladder? No it wouldn't be just as bad, do you know of any other animals that pollute and destroy vast amounts of habitat? If humans didn't exist, than there would be no pollution. If there were no humans, we wouldn't have extinct, endangered ect, animals. All the animals balance each other out, where as we have no definite animal that comes and kills us, apparently we just end up killing each other. If there were no humans than there would be more surviving ecosystems and homes.
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Old 10-20-2005, 09:25 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by LightDreamer
What's wrong with another species climbing to the top of the ladder? No it wouldn't be just as bad, do you know of any other animals that pollute and destroy vast amounts of habitat? If humans didn't exist, than there would be no pollution. If there were no humans, we wouldn't have extinct, endangered ect, animals. All the animals balance each other out, where as we have no definite animal that comes and kills us, apparently we just end up killing each other. If there were no humans than there would be more surviving ecosystems and homes.
Ok, first of all, we evolved (at least it's liklely we did) from apes, apes are a type of animal, so it can be safely asumed that if another spechies were to inherate our level of knowlege and free choice it would be pretty much the same outcome (maybe slightly different). Like Im said above, with freedom of choice comes the choice to make bad choices . also as to animals being extinct because of us, it's true we have whiped out a few spechies on the planet, but on a yearly basses over a thousand different spechies die out regardless of human interfence, infact it's far more absurd of us to think that we have the power to save endagered spechies. Different spechies have been going extinct long before we came into existance, and will after we are gone.
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Old 10-20-2005, 09:45 AM   #81
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What's wrong with another species climbing to the top of the ladder? No it wouldn't be just as bad, do you know of any other animals that pollute and destroy vast amounts of habitat?
Geese. Their feces are filled with dangerous chemicals. You get enough of them in a pond and it will kill off all the fish and plants. Then they move on and find another pond.

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If there were no humans, we wouldn't have extinct, endangered ect, animals.
Says who? Animals die off all of the time. Yeah, we don't really want it... But it happens naturally. It's called natural selection. A whole species can be selected against.

(Oh, I'd like to see a link to some evidence of over 1000 species die every year. I smell bologna on that.)
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:01 AM   #82
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well, I don't mean like Horses or dogs, but different insects, bacteria, and a buch of laughable atempts by nature to "improve" certain spechies, but If you want proof, I'll look into the specifics of it and post back later.
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Old 10-22-2005, 11:58 AM   #83
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But even if humans DID purposefully kill off another group, it is still natural. It all depends upon what you define as natural. It technically would be natural selection. We've selected that these other animals should not live. Is it evil? Well, is it evil when bonbonos kill off another group of bonbonos because they might invade their territory?
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:07 PM   #84
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Oh but therin lies the problems. Humans select the best crop that benifits themselves, not the species. Although this sounds okay at the beginning, it goes through wide transformation that would simply wipe out the species if the human's controlled environment is gone. Its not natural selection, its artificial selection.

Again, this isn't a bad thing. It might improve the plants (like that hybrid tomato that can stand cold weather) but it still isn't a natural selection.
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Old 10-23-2005, 12:28 PM   #85
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Oh but therin lies the problems. Humans select the best crop that benifits themselves, not the species. Although this sounds okay at the beginning, it goes through wide transformation that would simply wipe out the species if the human's controlled environment is gone. Its not natural selection, its artificial selection.
All animals choose what benefits themselves (or their own genes) over the species. Their is no altruism in animals (besides seen in humans, but I can argue over that later) except for genetic survival. It IS natural selection. I choose to kill off all the rabbits within a mile radius of my home so that they cannot get to my garden. I succeed. It is for my own survival.

Ch-ch-ch-check out all about selection via a human evo. book.
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Old 10-23-2005, 03:55 PM   #86
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Its artificial selection, not natural selection. I am agreeing that it is a selection, I am just saying it is artificial not because the bad genes are wiped out, which they are, but because the bad genes are not related to survival in most cases. Artificial selection is related to what benefits humanity compared to what benifits the species.
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:17 PM   #87
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Its artificial selection, not natural selection. I am agreeing that it is a selection, I am just saying it is artificial not because the bad genes are wiped out, which they are, but because the bad genes are not related to survival in most cases. Artificial selection is related to what benefits humanity compared to what benifits the species.
How is it not survival of the fittest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_selection
In the theory of evolution, artificial selection is the process of intentional or unintentional modification of a species through human actions which encourage the breeding of certain traits over others.
Artificial selection, according to its original definition, is only when we choose genes, such as dog breeders. Wiping out a species is still natural selection because we are not choosing how a species should evolve. We are choosing if it should EXIST.

Yes, it is true that many biologists and theorists use artificial selection for all human influence within the world, but I believe that they are wrong. We are, after all, animals. What we do would be no different than if a gorilla did it.
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Old 10-24-2005, 06:33 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Artificial selection, according to its original definition, is only when we choose genes, such as dog breeders. Wiping out a species is still natural selection because we are not choosing how a species should evolve.
But thats what I thought we were talking about. The dog breeding and stuff. On the case of wiping out species, it is not artificial and its not natural. Its not even a selection, its a tragedy.

Do you know why? Because we aren't allowing the animals to adapt to their surrounding. For example bacterias, insects, and other fast breeding species would change through natural selection but the few diverse species in the rain forest won't. Thats why people are against the rain forest destruction, that and the added change of weather.

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Yes, it is true that many biologists and theorists use artificial selection for all human influence within the world, but I believe that they are wrong. We are, after all, animals. What we do would be no different than if a gorilla did it.
Heres the thing, we can try to predict it. Our capacity of destruction is far greater than a gorilla's, thats why it can be considered wrong. The most likely event through this would be massive carnage as the species will not be able to keep up with the change. And that will create a butterfly effect to disbalance the whole process of the animal kingdom.
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Old 10-24-2005, 07:02 PM   #89
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But thats what I thought we were talking about. The dog breeding and stuff. On the case of wiping out species, it is not artificial and its not natural. Its not even a selection, its a tragedy.

Do you know why? Because we aren't allowing the animals to adapt to their surrounding. For example bacterias, insects, and other fast breeding species would change through natural selection but the few diverse species in the rain forest won't. Thats why people are against the rain forest destruction, that and the added change of weather.
Ah, but only to an extent. It all depends upon what your definition of natural. I see it as survival of the strongest. (Yeah, I feel stupid saying that and sounding like some 12 year old obsessed with such an ideology.)

You're right... Humans have a much higher potential, but that doesn't really change my point. If gorillas did have the same potential to us, would it be evil for them to destroy all other races if it would be beneficial to their own race? Not really. Same with humans. Let us pretend that we have a new form of sustenance that means we do not need to depend upon any other animal for nutrition... We also do not need them for warmth and do not need for them for other means. Would it really be wrong for us to look out for our own species interests?
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:33 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAztek
I see it as survival of the strongest.
Its not survival of the strongest when there is no way to survive.

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Originally Posted by DarkAztek
You're right... Humans have a much higher potential, but that doesn't really change my point. If gorillas did have the same potential to us, would it be evil for them to destroy all other races if it would be beneficial to their own race? Not really. Same with humans. Let us pretend that we have a new form of sustenance that means we do not need to depend upon any other animal for nutrition... We also do not need them for warmth and do not need for them for other means. Would it really be wrong for us to look out for our own species interests?
Yes, it would be wrong for the gorillas to do so too. It isn't benifitting them in the long run anyway, as it will dramatically change the weather pattern.

Oh and if that new substance was found, and the fuel limit was infinite, then thats one freaky chemical. The point I am trying to make is that humans have the potential to destroy their own world, and just because they believe it will benefit them, it will not mean it will do so in the long run. People are just finding out that canals and dams actually slow the earth's rotation and there are things called greenhouse gases.
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